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counter the official counter water cooler counter %HESITATION is they think you very much for a desktop server for helping us out with this particular episode we're streaming this on all the places that say is mom %HESITATION watches us on on you tube on Facebook on Twitter run everything we're doing all the things so let's take a look at on whatever thing it is that you're watching a sign I make gnostic yeah and if you don't want to watch the show do live right when we get it sometimes that'll work out %HESITATION you can also watch us %HESITATION any pre recorded state %HESITATION yeah he can sell it doesn't idea podcast list it doesn't work out watercooler dot com slash subscribe to find out that information over there so we we do have open free show prep we even talked about the show for the show which is I know it's it's crazy and before we get that I want to go %HESITATION want to get everyone I'm gonna get everyone introduce but I I wanted to kind of use that introduction time as a way of kind of bridging the gap into the the particular topic so the the topic idea is how do you go from a social media platform to %HESITATION your own website and so I wanted to ask you if you can remember what was the software that you're using for your personal website or what was the thing that you were using to %HESITATION to host your personal website was like my space or was it you know whatever your let's go remember quick introduced now of my name's Breanna permit as techno sirens and back in nineteen ninety six I sat and say the rise and we built some geocities websites together yeah that's where we get started are you know I got started anyway who was a neighborhood called in some pain in some ho yeah oh yeah really we it's still online let's also remember that in one of your talks yes those cool once you're very cold I how bout you I just wanna tell us about yourself yeah I'm just ruled I live in Idaho up here in the cold close to Canada but a lot of it is thinking my the first let's say that house was probably around two thousand six using HTML frames and they were horrible because I would have to redo the header on every single page every single time I decided to change the text for the logo or the menu until Jonathan should be this beautiful things locates free includes and then I pretty much felt like I was page free developer at that stage like I I thought that I knew I knew what I was doing where was hosted Jonathan my remember what a product and whatever I asked him in a small arms such a small insect coming think it's for and it was a little upset I made for basically a nonprofit idea that I had and she did all the graphics for in did really go anywhere but is a lot of fun to build it all W. Jonathan I am John told I %HESITATION hi I work live teach preach wordpress that's right you can say it my first manner like a definite image email stuff but where are where it counts for me was wordpress I mean I well said counts what counts out where it really filled like all my hopes and dreams for the boxes of being able to call the website so it wasn't hosted by somebody else but rather hosted by something that you controlled verses like a a myspace or or yeah I definitely had some HTML PHP sites before that so I mean those those can I just don't really remember them as well as like all right now I'm like controlling the thing I think the first let's say you might have made would have been passed on a floppy disk I feel like you build the next year and was shared with me %HESITATION and I I I I remember having a myspace that to mean it didn't feel like a website because I didn't child yeah now do you say we got well mainstay read a member press two service press me on all the things when you say the best you can say okay just getting %HESITATION happened after six years and saying the same thing %HESITATION I did a geocities as brown I already mentioned I don't know the first site that I ate %HESITATION like every like everything I build sites in HTML I don't even know what they're doing just made him out like these cables like I don't even know like I don't like right actually was talking about one this morning with my mom she did the %HESITATION she's the president CEO for company and %HESITATION she was in a bunch of associations when that stuff was just coming out so I was just talking with her about the women transportation seminars Inland Empire chapter's website this morning so that was one really long time ago and I was actually thinking about it because I was using her I was thinking about the graphics that we use the top like the little square color blocks like at the top of like a little late side part being that was like not a side bar because it was you know not dynamic obviously in any sense but anyway I thought question though because I literally everything about starting so purple members purple and gray now I want to know if that's on my end I have to go he my adolescence little might revolutions a little weird because I I start out with %HESITATION if I'm number eight was movable type which use C. G. I been pro script to do its thing and then I ended up %HESITATION doing HTML and then it's the male lead to S. H. T. M. L. which is doing server side includes which can get store Josh was talking about they give kinda doing %HESITATION you know %HESITATION Fenian if you will not have an update every single page this is the the main one but then it went into like live journal on live journal was like the spot that I wrote all my stuff and %HESITATION you know you have I mean the place turned into like this massive crazy Russian owned ridiculousness that that it is now but what it will be back then was really awesome is what I took my my first wordpress website and pulled all the data from it using some pro script that somebody wrote probably and put it into wordpress and and the thing the nice thing about live journal was that it was a dove tail between you had your personal space and you had a community a friend on the time line of feed you could see when people have posted you know juxtaposed basically against your own sites like the interface it really was a bridge between the two things we're talking about today but yeah I have I appreciated how easily live journal was sucked into my wordpress blog because I built a website I ran a dot org in nineteen ninety eight hosted on a pair that was speaking at eight and it sounds like it was a long time ago but had previously been a porn site so and I don't mean now for twenty years and well we're just you know he and and when I am migrated its word press in two thousand four two thousand yeah the two thousand four and that was the first thing I did was in poor on my live journal entries and you know I mean all those private when they did that I was like okay almost all private that are relevant believed to have a document of it like there's the all the content exist yet never one is in the really interesting on archive dot org and look of your site or someone else's site I'll be out way back machine is that it might but many times I I just it's like %HESITATION I find the so there is a teenager and like and it's yeah I have been very thankful that I basically became an adult right at the tail end of when all this stuff was happening so my teenage life is not really document just like some of my younger friends me too I never use live journal I read a lot of live journal though I really did but I did not write on it I was never comfortable with that level of sharing I've never been comfortable with that with that like I I mean I love blogging but I've never been comfortable personally using not in a personal sense I've never had a blog this legally are extraction right we're not talking about the most it personal things but you are talking about things I never really had a blog like that I just I I I I I I should those because I would have had one for free again ever now if I am but I never I %HESITATION I I was more of a guest worker in a way where I would like engage like you know I'll go to all %HESITATION comment on everything and whatever like I'm there but I'm not necessarily wasn't contributing information so I don't have anything to transfer over my first main wordpress site with them for my business %HESITATION my bookstore and that's feeding that is where I learned %HESITATION at which brand of both I think originally %HESITATION she hosted a hosting company %HESITATION so she was my house back in the day human like you hacked and it was awesome actually yeah it is neat because it was a conversation like working on that in it was like yeah and then you built your own for it was very cool very cutting edge time you know book directories and event directories before any of that happened so you know that none of that's very well documented though because too busy doing the thing to document the thing maybe that's always been the problem so how do we bridge the gap between a social a social media not our social platforms like Facebook like Twitter like any of these things to your personal website and in the personal website with me we say personal website because we don't want to focus on just the blog part of it but also like all the other fun things that you can do on a website other than a blog thing and so how do you kind of take that in and turn it you know you're all these people that are like %HESITATION to twenty nineteen I'm switching I'm I'm no longer gonna use Facebook I'm willing to use Twitter and I started using Twitter for a couple minutes and I'm like my god you guys even do any of this stuff on Twitter like half the stuff like five hundred years old nothing's out of IT men's in order thanks pop up on like this is this is yeah this is not a way of running the discussion how do you think yeah thing for me for my personal website is I've always put more carefully curated information on there I think about something I carefully right about an awfully well thought out pictures illustrations on it on Facebook it's been more just let things fly because I don't worry too much and Instagram has been a little bit more in the middle there is still on social media platforms it's very quick and easy to post things so I'll just post things that are more ephemeral dental care about later on my own website I want more time but I think that's the biggest difference for me animal website it's it's not easy it's just in ten seconds hop out of thought it takes about five minutes ago to go to my laptop I'm gonna look things and rex I mean that is not to bring a good number but I'm gonna do it really %HESITATION like right Matt's vision is to reduce the amount of time between you during that in terms of the mobile app in terms of just being like less amount to send it need to tighten up on your phone and your you typed in an image and Christopoulos is that if you can get it that easy suddenly it could become it could over to the platform so real problem actually I don't think isn't the publishing and publishing is actually really well done I think the problem is people finding things and knowing where people's things are and people want to hear your a plus one no one of the things I think is worth discussing is the difference between %HESITATION like the creation versus consumption and I think a lot of folks like a website and people can use like platforms for creation but a lot of people I would posit use it to consume and their their berries eventually it's it's more of a creative bear and a technical barrier and there are their religion technical barriers as well that need to be resolved ultimately I think there's some like deeper issues around people not feeling like they have something to create what which isn't true as well it's not even just about creating though the internet is a really great place right now and people feel like if they're being personal if they're showing themselves even if they're showing politics or news article that gets contentious really quickly and I think people don't want to expose the younger generations are more conscious of personal branding then I think we were at the inception of the wet kids aren't sure reading their presences they don't think about what they're doing on Instagram as creation necessarily but they do you think of it as Calrissian and so I think that you know I talked about it in terms of playfulness and creativity but that's because that applies to me and how I approached the web but I'm old and I've been on the web for a very long time and help people today are using it are vastly different any word reason our phones you know we're not tracking code we don't want to most people don't want to they want to post a picture they want to use a filter make it beautiful or they want to get sponsored you know so they can go somewhere cool and live a curator polite and not is already were offline we're talking about how people are living their lives and how dot it translates back to social media is people want a conversation but a lot of people want audience so you know you know so instead golden's book is new book called this is market he talks a lot about the concept of status and how we as humans are a lot of what we do is for status amongst ourselves like the sense of we want to belong to something these network effects kick in when like I he has this great example any talks a lot about like early adopters who can do things that people at all they want to like take part they want they want us to have some of that status that you get from us in the also do it so it's interesting with any of these topics you have to dig a little bit deeper into our intrinsic motivations as humans uncle I don't want to get like some people won't want to create if no one's watching yes right don't have that motivation they want to create for the sake of creation because but it's so we have to keep some of that stuff in mind when you get to these topics otherwise you can why isn't this working why is no one on one is never won not want to create their own website because that that didn't sell them with their accu let's the motivations important because on my own personal website for the last three four years after not comments and I'm really even check analytics every once in awhile someone a friend will say Hey I I said I like the article or I'll get a comment %HESITATION and that happens maybe once a week or once a month so the motivation for me I'm intensely made it that I'm not trying to get this feedback loop I'm trying to just have a place where I want to go rankings and create things I decided to that's not a trivial conclusion like I I also did the same I took analytics entirely off my site which is a little bit hard it was hard because like we're so wired to like all I wanna see the number impressions the number it's but ultimately I had to sit what what actually matters to me and for me personally it's actual impact so I would rather someone tell me that that it helps them or in some other way than just get a bunch of people looking at it I'm curious to hear still does private journaling go off and on about six months out of the year %HESITATION I'll do it %HESITATION yeah I was just having a conversation about that like two days ago so very topical thank you if you private journal then that means you're you're getting your thoughts out in a format that's completely just for you you go to the web or to a social platform you clearly know there's a disconnect between the type of content you're creating %HESITATION when if you're used to doing I think there's also something in that like just that private %HESITATION public split in terms of if you're not will not even have a template like if you are a writer and your writing and that's the way you express yourself and you get your thoughts out that's really different than someone who maybe talks and that's how they do stuff so you know I have great friends when I talk about things that %HESITATION I'm a you know that's how I process stuff right like even though I can write number writer that's not how does stuff gets process for me and I think that the web has been to to to still right now it's shifting obviously with the spoken instead it's been shipped into visual from writing based live journal and all of that and that has I think enable more people to participate because it's not you know there's there's something to be said there's a formalization process of writing that's not as just like boom you're right what that's a good point because I think I'm all my friends who are now closed on Instagram very comfortably still because they can do pictures and one line of text and they're very excited right I and I think the weather's been almost exclusionary you know we talk about accessibility a lot in terms of literal ability seeing you know that hearing that type of stuff but we don't talk a thon about Nero diversity which is something I learned about this year %HESITATION and the different ways that people process information the different ways that people want to publish want to express themselves and there's all sorts of different types of that so I think the web has been sort of exclusionary up till now you know and even when stuff to a certain degree there's a there's a you know if you see if you do it like even with the show right we've been doing this for six years but I mean we do a lot of us don't really like we're not like out there like hitting the pavement and like you know doing all sorts of stuff like case and does you know his his publications or whatever but I know writer though well I think it's a different medium but we're obviously not doing it for you know that status so it's kind of like this is in a way like a personal blog you know maybe like this is where I come and I talk about my things about wordpress and that's a form of expression that is interesting in and that's not as that's not as intuitive to the website part and so the website has almost up until this moment kind of excluded those people that's why social media hasn't done that you can take pictures that are at the website you have to write you have to do stuff I this to change with the new stuff that we're talking about here a quick comment on status just to kind of clarify that %HESITATION ascent talk about the book it's not inherently negative or positive thing it's just knowing where you that because some people don't want higher status they actually want lower status look at this so they can be more obscure but it's just basic idea not understanding where you fit sense of identity versus humans like like we want to look %HESITATION I'm part of this thing like people and sets because of people like us do things like this like we we want that census units Brianna I just think that there is a point at which it was easier to centralize things from a personal wordpress based website where you could post once in the state cross networks and pull data back so that you were engaging in a conversation still with a New York personal eco system and a lot of effort has been made by Facebook and Twitter to make that impossible and constantly what they're coming UP I changes and their existence niche that but we can't it makes a huge difference but going back to what you're saying about your %HESITATION diversity I also think I mean we just passed a major gift giving holiday a lot of people have voiced assistance and I think that we're going to see kind of an explosion in publishing to the web using voice interface and as someone who is both a developer and we'll just saying you're a diverse you know I you trust your total dress let's be route I am %HESITATION like I just have to say is real quick Instagram horizontal scrolling this week Brianna's uncle scrolling since like nineteen ninety eight so just yeah but you know and I'm not sure how I feel about that and like that I want and she was assistance are going to make a huge difference to accessibility and personal publishing on the web see yeah and I don't think companies are going to be the ones to drive that band guard they'll provide the hardware but we still as developers and as I'm champions of publishing on the web whatever that looks like video taxed image we are the ones who are going to basically be showing people how to do that you know like this is this is **** early adopters Jeez then actually %HESITATION you have with your listing that he'd been doing I lift Tyrese so Jason stand I don't know if we really talked about on the show at all and chronicling that %HESITATION and you do a voice blog thing right hit it straight up and then publish it yeah I dictated it %HESITATION well I I made that made the choice of doing the dictation into a software or app that I use my phone call drafts in the draft you just hit the little record button and they'll drafts made for a bunch of things but it's mainly like a place to capture data first before you do something else with that size using drafts dictation system to kind of do this dictation and I said up front just let you know and I even said it for a while dictating that just let you know whatever it is it's here he comes up with what I say I am not into doing this so it is what it is and that's it if it says I picked up a white elephant I picked up why don't I I'm sorry but that this is what happened and that's it but I take the data and then I put that into %HESITATION into Facebook inside just posting those on Facebook to get people to talk about you know ride sharing and all that sort of thing but I I guess the thing is is that because I posed to the stuff on Facebook and on my personal website I'm posting on Facebook knowing that other people are going to see it were if I were to post on my personal website I can guarantee you no one's going to read it why because no one even knows I have a personal no one's there I'm yeah I mean mentioning possibly checking your website which is were like going back to live journal or anything like live journal is that there is a built in network that was that was there even wordpress dot com kind of has its own little networking type thing of being able to like hit the start button next to a post in that says that you read it and you can get more stars it's almost like the equivalent of whatever tumblr does where it has it's like re blogs and that sort of thing or media claps which is median bases its monetization off of those collapse in terms of what it pays and also who offers fire wall pay well monetization options so friends are you I see every week for years in the adult young blog and no idea right back little bit later like having spent a few minutes reading through and it it's just they have no idea stammers if I see something on Facebook fifty of my friends will probably see it in a day exactly and it's you know it's something you run into like in the handmade community people are selling online they don't really want to go to work Cranston install we commerce you want to go where there's a built in network shoppers like at sea and town hall or square yes so we have all the right networks that are fighting really hard to keep their data with in the walled garden and it's it needs to change it it's not like I'm a you know getting super retro about it they're really where things with RSS an XML than what we have to date with a lot of hacks like you want your Twitter feed to be in order there are some hacks for that that you can do in the search bar and which is fine and everybody likes to be in the know everybody likes to be in the secret society where you know the hacks to make it work for you but at a certain point and at a certain time in your life you don't want to have to have something you want to work right it's no longer fun is no longer ordering off the secret it's kind of like with my operating system I used to really care about tweaking everything in windows making it look exactly like what I want %HESITATION changing all the settings and now on mac I don't think twice it's dark motor like scanning Napster back in the day yes exactly Muneer this is this is a really interesting topic ending %HESITATION poor wonder can keep revisiting in different ways because it's not a matter of my god one one of the things is it means they are my son is eight years old now he's expresses interest in having a website and I'm like how do I how do I guy thank you how to lie it is in Afghanistan discussions with him I've encouraged him to like we'll start writing out what you think you'd want to put the thing about why we want to but I want to strongly encourage it and that's up to frame my thinking over the past few months and say okay what Weber we build in for our kids yeah was just gonna look like for that what's the future look like and I personally I'm fine with these walled gardens existing because I think they drive innovation in important ways but for me I want the open web to be healthy and strong and it and today I feel like there's a lot of very legitimate risks that don't just get addressed on their own you know something that we don't talk about all the time that is definitely impacting wordpress world in terms of those walled gardens and you're talking about where innovation happens those walled gardens also have something that comes along with them that you know called the golden news which I did actually knew how to name but I referred to all the time with my brother because he's a genius programmer and he worked for my space and image created the top eight that you know was awesome and basically they just throw money at you in so you don't leave we don't really care what you DO just use much money don't go anywhere and that is I feel like what a lot of %HESITATION tech companies do drug when somebody at some townspeople now they come up with some stuff so yes that drives innovation but also keep those people from innovating on their own and keep them with in again that well guarded everything they do all their intellectual property everything that they do is for that company so the motivation to create just to create these coding developer mines it's not fair because they don't know what it is not gonna be there if they work for them you know I mean it's just not so they may have to leave and take time off and stuff and so you know innovation happens there because it's well paid and there's cafeterias in laundromats and stuff and if they weren't driving everybody to stay there what would the web actually look like we probably wouldn't have awesome stuff inside wall gardens we probably have what it looks like back was gonna look like before they threw up all that well one point to that I was just reading this week about the guy who founded Instagram he tried to get hired if they spoke before then and it didn't work out for some reason should any doesn't bill's Instagram and instantly gets it he nice also to be split but the idea being to your point %HESITATION which you have created Instagram under the auspices Facebook what mark Zuckerberg's vision was not what he does and what we can never know for sure but the answer is probably no he probably would not have made this completely different software under Facebook %HESITATION and it's the world is a different place because he did that because you went out on his own and make that software no died I think I think our homework for today is if you had some homework at between now and you know the first or second when you actually go back to work if you're a full time employed person like me or if you do yeah I got some get some days off you got some things so to work on before you have to pick up your next projects in the began the year look at the Indy web good indie web dot org %HESITATION I've been using a software through them call bridge G. and there's a there's a couple other things that are kind of tied into this it works with using like backtracks and %HESITATION using a back feed in all these different ways a kind of making websites talk to each other let's take a look at that it's it's something that I've really enjoyed %HESITATION playing around with and kind of seen the things that people are doing with it I think overall it might be I'm I'm not saying it's the future but it's definitely something that %HESITATION is setting a good trajectory for the future of making those sites all talk to each other I've been having a lot of these conversations and I'm really excited for the future of the web honestly I wasn't for a minute look kind of bleak but everyone kinda like rallying also I guess is once we get are you six to stop being like the the thing we have to worry about we should be just thank you very much for all of our folks here on our panel to come and hang out with me during the what you call it say the dark days the bar that we make where we're content goes the dire where US back in September in other plane that finally you know they have a it does like I watch the today show this morning and having all those folks kind of like %HESITATION this is actually recorded right now it's not we're actually recorded from a couple weeks back like really come on so thank you guys for hanging out with us this awesome folks the chat hanging out and talking with us and stuff so I'll make sure that our our panelists you're able to take a look at that and I want to say I think you very much for desktop server for helping us out with the technologies of reason you're in pain or us reshape that such a letter
Can you replace social media with your own website? We start our discussion here and Jason continues it on his person website – Should we replace Facebook with our personal websites?
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