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Hey what's up everyone this is Jason Tucker this is W P. water cooler if it is the twenty second it is oh my goodness I can't I don't know I'm having a having all sorts issues with with the fact that the month is flying by so quick summer it is the second day of summer elsewhere it's episode number two seventy eight and we have a small crew here just the three of us summer I think it's because it's summer and and last week if you guys watched arm rest and I did the the rest and Jason morning show and it was just the two of us and that was that was yes that was I think I thought last week it was fear of being the only way that you'll see that was my last week I was on a trip you weren't even here and it was I don't even know what happened either because I wasn't there either is like we don't care yell let's go around the very small room real quick Jason costs for your last name is enough of a quarter being first Hey yeah everybody allergies and prosper I am the senior performance engineer over it like a club and I'm happy to be part of this %HESITATION this little skeleton crew awesome say but not all how about me hello my name is say read %HESITATION activity media when I specify for the record I do care %HESITATION and the I'm what I do I make bread prestige repressed three toward pressed one of the things that have at one time this summer sometime this summer when I have been new cool handle for all y'all the hand follow I mean I'll still be it's every media I'll be launching of things and I have a bunch so mood check you out I'm Susan Tucker uniforms find me of Reggie some talk on Twitter my website is decent talk about blog and I'm yesterday we we did a show on Debbie people lab where Bridget was out of town she was in Belgrade are flying home from Belgrade and Russell I talked with one of his co workers about how how to do social media and how to do scheduling of content and how to kind of get all those things together and making sure that your your blog posts and everything are on the schedule so feel free to take a look at that you can go take a look at that a day or about com slash to be what already slowing it worry whole it does not tell us who you are that just tells with what you did last night that's all I do you are what you did I am what I am of but you're also decent actor and people can follow you actually on things and not produce you literally totally missed the entire thing at the very beginning of course I do I just play and then my head just as the thing and then I don't have to think about it way too much thought and around I promise that I care about you can say that it will never happen I was listening so hard to that part of your story about rest I forgot about good as anything I care too much it's yet but will work much wait so during the French so we were we were kind of coming up with a topic idea what we're going to discuss and one of that one of the things we came up with is just the fact that you have people come to meet ups and that are listening to you know what we're talking about I I myself from the me that and I have people that come to meet up and they ask me what's is good Burg thing and I'm like do we've been talking about this good work thing for like six one zero year and why why are you just now asking the US and so what it seems like it is a lot of people aren't really thinking about Gutenberg itself and how it's going to impact them because for one we named a good burger no one even knows what a good number guess other than the Gutenberg press and the person named Burt I mean I don't understand like but I don't really understand like why a Gutenberg the editor the eighty that page constructor the whatever it is you want to call it the building blocks that are going to be able to be used to make your content why that's even important and it's because we never really had a transition like this for a text editor you think it's because this was brought to people and the initial reason for caring that has been given to people kinda like what did you do your PC is not as easy to work every time GPR I'm you heard it here first it is the GDP art that people cared about Gutenberg because they were told a good number gets happening therefore you should care it was like Hey we're shifting without that mean that it's it's been attempted to do that since then I don't know that it's been like super successful because of the nature of the the the project and how like kind of like over there it is it's not happening like right here in our faces but I think that's part of the reason why is because it happened it first of all it hasn't happened yet and it's been taught you know said to be imminent for like the past year was like always going what we didn't talk about ever really is why it's happening of what we need is %HESITATION it was just why is that this is happening and this is how to prepare for it and this is what you know you should do about it is the impact it's going to have but we I don't think we as a community least not in a broader community really addressed then the reason that that Gutenberg is coming down the pipeline at all so people didn't have a reason to care about it other than it was happening to them and so V. the action that is just all do what I need to do to deal with it as opposed to this is a conversation about creating a different kind of word passed that can be a part of what do you think about that because I yeah I I you know honestly %HESITATION these conversations have been happening especially at meetups and stuff like that sense before Gutenberg and I mean before that it was the rest API were the changes to how the admin was styled an empty sex I ran eighty meet up here in Bakersfield from like twenty sixteen twenty seventeen that we ended up try lighting and part of it was people came to the meetings asking the same it was like for people who always came to just one meeting %HESITATION and they would just ask the same question Hey I know you were talking about this thing last week what's up with that and sleep were you you were here last week you were I don't know you were on your computer checking face Bakir looking you know making sure you didn't get some in now or something but right you know likely yeah yeah yeah exactly as it may be I may be saying if there is any cold geo filters on Snapchat or something like that but %HESITATION so it you know that as far as I know chasing that you're a a meeting organizer as well and that's part of the reason that we ended up spending around them the meeting is because he and actually someone else's picked it up and is this trying again here in Bakersfield but it's a it's hard to a to a week in week out as you know have people come up that have people volunteer their time or be the person volunteering their time telling somebody about something and then the people who were at the previous meeting don't know what you're talking about and yes I think it even happens with with just like just the idea of of of telling people about getting burned itself is that we have these kind of these little small spurts of information that keeps coming out about you know getting Burke it's like oh there's this new thing that's going to happen and really okay let's talk about it and we talk about it and then we go off and talk about gravity forms again we talk about whatever else again and then %HESITATION something else change on your bird that's that's a big big deal let's go talk about that again but there hasn't been like this like consistent kind of flow of information that that somebody who is not a full time developer needs to really worry about and they're kind of just like I'll just wait until like the editor changes in my website and then I'll worry about it route real in that you know the plugin that you've been using that's now eight years old instead of you know you know upgrading your plug in every year or doing something every year with that yeah I mean you're gonna end up with some plenty of issues and you need to really you know look at these and you need to start addressing you know the stuff because yeah Gutenberg's gonna break some things and and you need to really do you need really need to get there and actually do it it's not just so that the you know what the impact is going to have on an individual site or what I think this kind of lack of %HESITATION kind of client lack of caring or like lack of %HESITATION engagement %HESITATION it leads to the the product itself being bad in its own reactionary you know I mean as opposed which is really where the open source world thrives I mean honestly it's where all of human interaction drives when we're actually engaging interacting and not passively receiving information it just like well since it doesn't affect me directly I'm just going to not care about it you know until it actually impacts me directly and that is problematic for a lot of reasons in a lot of contacts even just in this word press contacts you know it means that when it does impact impact you really badly and so by being proactive and being involved ahead of time you can actually save yourself more about people to not be able to really make that connection between like helping you know kinda like owe everyone on the first that the the first responders of developers in they'll handle it you know I mean and then and then the first responders developers get for now and I like what I'm saying anything because you're not listening or hearing or just painting and that I think is really a problem for open source project when you hit disconnect yeah I absolutely agree with you %HESITATION this kind of reminds me a bit of %HESITATION the monolith the beginning of two thousand one there people people know that it's there via the apes that are at the at the base of it know that it's there don't know what it is have seen I don't know what it is just but they've seen for some time and even the the people that find the monolith up on the moon you know they see it for some time they study it they try to figure out what it is and what it does and then eventually you know someone had set and then it's just anarchy it's it's all of this like all hell breaks loose because nobody quite understands that and they're not going to understand it until they get their hands on it I think it's it's good that %HESITATION we have this time one with good in Birkenau that matter now instead at work Campillo we had a time line another yeah and of course there are complaints that you know okay %HESITATION we don't have enough time to prepare for this I mean Gutenberg development has been happening in the open for I mean how long now a year at least yeah walk we're if you haven't had time and you haven't been paying attention then you you know you and you haven't been caring enough to pay attention that's on you brother thanks they didn't iceberg has been going across like this you should have seen it coming because it's been going you know you should actually see this you know actually going about that like August adoption I'm like where were you when they said it was going to be April because April's before August so here now it's later and you're mad now what the they were gonna ship and nag in our previous version of word press for nine that was going to say Hey you should try Gutenberg to get more people with hands on experience to test it despite this you know kind of shouting down ignorance I I've had a plugin ready since they were talking about doing that to to turn that nag off because some people just don't want to see that like every time they go in to to their W. P. out man %HESITATION but at you know it's it's been ready for for a minute but I I'm I'm glad that they're finally going to be putting those nags in front of people and actually getting people to to look at the software to use the software I think it's come a long way just in the past do you know someone like six months he had in months definitely yeah I I don't know though I'm not like I feel like putting a time line on it in terms of a temporary timeline like or a tentative timeline really is a probably be around August but to me this is the same problem I had back when they said in December that it was going to last summer that I was going to be in April I'd like white you know why you put a time line on it just ship it when it's ready and let's not like artificially create deadlines for things that people are not waiting for like what you know we're all anxious for it you already put a cap on it was five so it's gonna be five but like assumes August September October when it's ready okay now I have to have a thing on my wall that is yes data just television but maybe you can see it that's right over my shoulder here it says she and dawn is better perfect three months late I don't know I don't know it by three months late only matters if you have a deadline that actually relate to anything as opposed to just like in a day out of the air and being like yeah we have to ship on this day and she for new of website owners across the land is not better than perfect in three months late when there's no I don't I don't think people are waiting for I don't I don't do the integration thing but like in this case I don't necessarily agree with that statement I don't think I don't think it's going to be shitty when it ships ID have been I mean it'll be a floater but it's not going to be he a shitty ship it's just so sorry sorry for the explicit no no no come on please Roald Dahl tear that was tame but but no but but so you're saying that ship now six later in terms of getting or what do you mean you're saying that and in terms of set the date and put it out no matter what ready like what is I don't know what's like what we eat what's the date what are we waiting for what's very tied to you know besides our own innovation and our own process where we tend to with it being ready way being being fully base like what what are we tied to their wake not break once that is basically what I'm I mean I could tie is do we have it where it's not breaking things then it's never gonna be ready number everything always break something working press there's so many damn plugins out there that have never been updated that have never on you know like basically somebody ship something and then they never so okay how about that does the bill properly because if you think it's like strung up by this eight year old plug in and you have an update or whatever and you're on you know for three this is a thing is gonna shipping core if it's gonna shipping core then the plugins need to stop breaking instead of Gutenberg breaking apart since I don't really agree with that yeah I totally agree with that but I guess we'll have some really old **** plugins that need to be a removed from there like they they should not be using these plugins anymore that our conflicts with something that's brand spankin mail and if it's if you're running something I help people who come in and say you know I'm running Yost version two point six two or whatever you're like are you kidding me like dude I think that thing and if you're not using anymore but you will have been around forever words were it's five to still so newer versions yeah that's true I mean let's be real there is it is at least they put a flag now on the I mean that's been for awhile in the plugin repository that something is old but I wonder me canescens maybe at what those things being removed like if your plan is five years old not compatible and has whatever you have to like resubmit like why is still in there who can't go go away you know I mean if you're not updating it it's just confusing ball I don't know what the if I recall correctly in the news search on your link in the newer like plug in search they have %HESITATION something a basically a flag that says like if the banner shows up if it's older than acts like don't show it in search results at the very least like it's still like why are you know like where we propping that up like like I feel the plugin repositories like this the marketplace and showcase and it's like if you had this amazing thing just continue to add stuff to it like say you at a swap meet right and you just continue to add stuff to it and then the people who stands are like empty or like just had one thing or was like you know busted or they're doing somewhere like you just can't make believe you know come back with something new if they had something new but like so because we have this unlimited digital space microbes matter just keep them there but the experience for the person who's like I'm in my wordpress I am going to go in a little plug ins repository and going over here makes flooring what's all this stuff those things show up and they're not thinking oh I should probably filter for things that are broken in and out all day the XP we should never be like you should have to take those out yourself like that I feel like that should be part of the express like you could turn on yeah if you want to see all the outdated stuff turn that on instead of you know opting out backwards compatibility in terms of what we're promoting to the community because you can still install it you can still look at it you can sell and solid and wait even with that flag it is an endorsement and so even though I'm a fan of backwards compatibility I feel like there is a time where you just like you know too bad sorry you have to you know and then we we do that you know he's done that whatever but like at a certain point in time like wordpress you know should do that for some of these plugins anyway there's this there's a site that I've been looking at quite a bit over at its core it's a plugin compatibility list for good work and of all of the links on the show notes Daniel walk Huber walk by cover yet he yeah he he built this like pretty awesome list of here's all the plugins that are in the in the repository and then here's all the plugins that have been tested and are likely to work or aren't working at all and I'm in the reasoning why some of these are messed up is the best up because of you why is the best because the metal box doesn't work is our Java script this prevent it from being used is it an existing functionality that works in getting Burke or doesn't have any editor functionality at all in so you kinda look through this list and see what's there and the first the first one there contact her seven Kismet and wordpress SCO and jet pack which is like you gotta start somewhere in this list of ideas there in those the ones that you started with and then kind of heavy hitters off the bat on to page two hundred or five hundred and whatever you know there's some plugins like beep beep beep beep beep private groups it's unknown whether or not it's it's available or not although when SCO pack importer is at work or not but you know there's I mean the terrifying graphic file not found in eighty percent are unknown in terms of compatibility like I think eighty percent but like half of that eighty percent is out of date plugins that no like this many people are using whatever it like they should be affecting that general whole either it should be like you know I'm cool like apple did this with their with their recent cleanup that they did of their apps store and they said you know what anybody who made I think it was thirty two bit applications they now need to be sixty four bit applications and only sixty four bit are allowed to exist in the app store okay thirty two bit applications you're done and you just this one out and clear them all out that sort of thing it would need to into pop mean and in the repository to relieve make that number be all the more realistic because there's plenty of places that are in the repository better for very specific things like there's a plugin in the repository for church management software that only you know say three hundred churches use and out of the three hundred churches not all of them are using wordpress so they're all talking to a word press website so now you only have like a small maybe a thirty five churches are actually is not software yet that software is updated regularly and exists in the repository so you can't say that you know it's popularity contest or any of those other sorts of things that need to be that you know do all these plugins actually work or not and I think you need to find if we're gonna do the whole thing like this Max mass exodus type thing that %HESITATION that that apple did with the app store they need to go and figure out what's that what's that level of compatibility that you still need to have in order for it to still exist within the within the repository I mean I say if you have it if it like it has been touched in three years like and I think there is that there is a policy of that like in your example just now it was up in its regularly updated and maintained and so it's for thirty five people but that doesn't mean that it's not right but there are plugins that the that the developers have said like this place better it's the all yeah like that that stuff and I I believe is actually a policy on this it we should have meat on the show and and them and that get some information about it be like official in real instead of just wondering wonder next week but actually is so this is this %HESITATION plugging compatibility chart you should all check it out is anyone watching this check out on the in the show notes but like eighty two percent of unknown compatibility I guess I get why everyone's freaking out about you know alliances dogs are just like going absolutely berserk in the background right so that yeah you're right you know you can sort by you can sort by an ad filters to this you can actually run a filter on here that says that is compatible and yes and then run that filtering out all the cures all the plugins that are compatible and you should probably use them and whether or not the functionality exists within %HESITATION good burger ready or not in kind of severe looking for plugins a test I mean we do this but he's also asking this is this is kind of right what I brought this up is that he's also asking that if you're somebody who has some time that is really really wanting to contribute to this this kind of a project of determining whether or not a %HESITATION a plugin is compatible or not you sign up for this and that they're actually providing sandbox environments for them to test on and they're providing like all of those things that are so you're able to kind of work this out W. P. sandboxes providing the the test environments for it so I signed up for it I haven't actually gotten in there and started working on any of this stuff yet but I would I would highly suggestive your soul mate who is taking the summer off and you're not going to be doing any any any type work but you're looking for some small project to kind of jump into this big project is dark you buddy that's about all I will say this but it's definitely George George yeah there's this type work well you're not working you should totally jump into this and play around with it I do want to say though that the fact that move commerce is listed on this list as being non credible is blowing my mind like I don't even know what to do with that information like if he plugin that is owned by automatic is not leading the charge of being Berg compatible like like well both both back and we'll commerce or listen yours is no not even like likely yes or whatever you know like I I realize it's going to be fixed right I know this is what I'm talking about with this speaking of like can we at least make sure that the ones like will commerce which is like a staple like it will come first breaks people will run a shop and buy it will run to other platforms like small business owners not gonna wait for blue converse to get updated because were like transitioning you know visions or whatever like they're like I want my might make shop to work and if that shop doesn't work they will shift I just had a bunch of calls not clients but actual friends who are shifting from NC because at sea change their pricing policy in terms of like the percentage are gonna charge for shipping and whatnot and they're like he's out at sea they're all gone they're well built like and check my site you know because that's the easy way to get things built so I'm saying like like screw August like this is this is this is what I'm mad about I'm not mad about good Burke I think it's important we have to transfer out we have to upgrade like that makes sense but why are we doing it on a deadline that is arbitrary and moving obviously and still arbitrary with arm train April arbitrary in August it's a projection where we doing that to ourselves our community everyone's panicking is it to get people to test things is it whatever just like automatic when you fix your stuff then we can talk about time about that you can you can stay on for nine until you're ready for five say yeah that's not a super healthy eating to tell all of the clients like to set up right I love telling people who are like trying to type thing where question Java by it's cool as long as you like on the older version because that new version I don't know what it's gonna do to your site at all and you might not be able to like you know have your income for awhile but totally don't change systems well I would lose yeah I was gonna say it sounds like there's a lot of motivation to %HESITATION to dive into the punk about ability test to dive into testing the beta when it is getting ready to shut up I'm not only of people look at the the our season the nightlies in the betas and stuff like that as we approach five point I'll wait maybe they should wake absolutely and ends yeah okay you don't want to tell somebody to stay on for nine six %HESITATION %HESITATION you know four nine seven but the four nine branch but like they help in porting security fixes back to these previous branches all the way back to three seven so if anybody who is stuck back on these all branches at least will still get security fixes that's good and smart and helpful and community based so I'm not saying that this is like all a total trash prior I'm just like this is there's a water in the water outs you wonder what hockey is and that's just a great expression I still like it didn't really really in the one ounce and what have you slow Dick Cheney said along a couple of long years ago and he said what we know we know what we don't we know what we don't know but we don't know what we don't know whenever that was and if you don't know now you know if you don't know I will say that if you go over to that plugin database and you go and sort by active installs which I'd mention that's would say did when she looked to see how many will commerce as and then wet hold my goodness leaving tie your page if you sort by active installs are all we calmer stuff for the first I think two pages or all wheel commerce that's right there a lot of people use will cover stuff and yes you people always follow the money and they're always going to make sure that the money things are going to continue to work with whatever it is that they're doing and it's in their best interest to do it so that's it I want to say thank you very much for the both of you for hanging out with all of us we're able to do to get together and talk about the stuff I want to say I big shout out yesterday too to to rest my be nobody that show that we did without Bridget I I love that I'm able to still do that show even though Bridget dozens wasn't able to show up for that particular episode but I'm to have Laura Coronado to be on the show and talk about how to do a planning to maintaining a flexible hunting calendar was awesome some definitely go take a look at the number one hundred and four and one last thing if you didn't notice this at the beginning of the show I did not have an ad for this particular show and if you want to figure out how to do some ads on our shows here you go over to W. R. W. water or about com slash subscribe note about slash sponsor to be able to do some sponsorships for this particular but you should also subscribe yeah plus slash what I had to write regular subscribe all the things all right touch all letter in her much bye bye to each other
Sé gets confused
Gutenberg and how it will impact them and how folks aren’t taking it seriously.
GDPR and the recent episodes we’ve talked about it
Sé thinks the community haven’t addressed or correctly for the “normals” to know about it
Cosper chimes in that he thinks we’ve done well at meet ups discussing this and that the REST API and MP6 styles for the dashboard
Were not sure people attending meetups are listening when we talk about Gutenberg.
We transition to taking about making sure our attendees to our meetups are kept up to date about about the changes in WordPress
Discussing the impact and the lack of caring and engagement regarding Gutenberg concerns us. This is problematic because not know about these changes coming up can be big for many people using WordPress regardless if they are developers or not.
Cosper talks about the monolith in 2001 and they don’t know what it is but it exists. They study it and they finally hit it and all hell breaks loose and they don’t understand it. He thinks it’s good we have a new timeline and that Matt has addressed this at WCEU. Cosper says that it’s on you to learn about this.
Jason talk about the Guten-iceberg and how people should see this.
Cosper talks about the nag bar on the dashboard and how this helps somewhat to get people to look at the new functionality.
Sé brings up the timeline a bit and for ship it when it’s ready. Cosper shares his sign on his wall that’s says “shitty and done is better than 3 months late”
Cosper talks about compatibility with other plugins. Jason brings up dealing with old plugins that don’t even know what Gutenberg is.
Sé talks about old plugins in the repo and why they are still in there. Cosper brings up that the search results in the repo shows if a plugin is old or not. Se wants them removed.
Jason brings up the Gutenberg Compatibility list and tells folks they should look into it https://plugincompat.danielbachhuber.com/
Apple cleaned up their App Store using the excuse of 32bit and 64bit applications. https://developer.apple.com/support/app-store-improvements/
Sé wants to get Mika on the show to discuss plugins, compatibility and dealing with old plugins in the repo.
Jason talks about the ways to filter the plugins based on compatibility with Gutenberg
Sé talks about Woocommerce being listed on this list as not compatible with Gutenberg is concerning to her.
Sé wants to know why there is an arbitrary date for release on Gutenberg. Cosper provides a solution for larger sites and how security updates are still released for older versions. He talks about the RCs, the Nightly, and the Betas and people should be looking into these for now.
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Editor’s Note: Transcriptions of episodes are created with a mix of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain some grammatical errors or slight deviations from the audio.