Email list management is key to ensure your email campaign is delivered. Many people focus on open rates without realizing their deliverability is sub-optimal. Working hard on email campaigns only to end up in spam is a bummer. But how old is your lair? Email lists go stale like old bread.
Amy Hall joins Jason and Bridget to discuss how to stay out of spam! It’s pretty technical but we believe in you. (Even Bridget did her homework — which took about an hour.)
“When you buy an email list you are wasting your money.” Amy Hall
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Authenticate Your Domain Name
The first tip has has “nothing to do with the email that you’re building, it has to do with your own email address,” Amy says. If you’d like to stay out of the junk or spam folders, then be sure to authenticate your domain name with your email marketing provider.
“Don’t send [your email campaign] from Gmail!” Amy Hall
“Oops!” Bridget Willard
Email From Your Domain Name
Maybe you were like Bridget and were sending email campaigns from Gmail. It’s okay. You can fix that. (She did right after this episode). This is really important for email deliverability (staying out of the spam folder.)
Let the receiver’s inbox know that your email is a real and valid address and not being spoofed. This is why you use DMARC markers on your DNS server. Mailchimp is a great resource for soft and hard bounces. Mailchimp has great instructions for DKIM and SPF.
Then, ensure you send emails consistently. Whatever you promise in your welcome message (every week, twice a year), do that.
Clean Your List Regularly
This is where automation can be your best friend. If an email subscriber hasn’t opened an email in 6-9 months, send them a re-engagement campaign asking them to take an action. Then send them to a “thanks for sticking around” type of landing page.
You can clean your list through a service separate from your campaign provider. Amy recommends downloading the CSV, cleaning the list, then uploading the CSV. It’s better not to have that ding in your account.
“And the thing about it is, is it doesn’t, they count, doesn’t get pinged that you have bad email addresses in it, so you don’t have to ding against you because it’s not really a ding, but it isn’t ding, they’re going to be watching you because you have that email addresses.” Amy Hall
Don’t Be That Person
It’s easy to add people to your lists. Bridget does it. We all do it. If you do, have an automated welcome email with the reason why that person was added and the ability to unsubscribe.
“It is against the law to send an email without an unsubscribe option,” Amy reminds us. If you see these, report them as spam in your email reader (email client).
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Amy recommends Kickbox to clean your emails.
Jason recommends Timerly for Toggl.
Bridget recommends wordhtml.com for cleaning HTML.
Jason Tucker: [00:00:00] This is episode number
the smart marketing show. Stay out of the spam box
with listing management.
Thank you to our friends over at ServerPress makers of DesktopServer, they make local wordpress development easy go to spin up over at the ServerPress.com
And our Friends over at Cloudways to keep your web hosting for your WordPress website for the cloudways.com
Help us out and
us over on Patreon. at Patreon.com/WPwatercooler. We’re going to
add your name at the bottom.
There I am Jason Tucker and I’m an IT director and web developer. Find me over at
@jasontucker on Twitter.
This is my friend and cohost Bridget Willard. She’s a marketing consultant.
You can find her on Twitter @youtoocanbeguru.
our guest today is Amy Hall, email marketing strategy and MailChimp
You can find her @ genuineamyhall
Hey, how’s it going?
Amy Hall: [00:01:00] Hi.
Jason Tucker: [00:01:01] Hi, Amy. How are you doing today?
Amy Hall: [00:01:03] Oh, good.
Jason Tucker: [00:01:04] Good. Glad to hear it.
Bridget Willard: [00:01:06] You always have the best earrings.
Jason Tucker: [00:01:18] Let’s make sure we go around.
Bridget Willard: [00:01:21] I always worked. I always just wear my same gold hoops. I don’t take them out if I do. Everybody’s like, Oh, are you going on a date? No, I’m not.
Jason Tucker: [00:01:28] I have one,
and I’ve always
had only one.
Bridget Willard: [00:01:33] Oh,
that’s true. So now that we’ve, I’m sorry, but that picture of you was so great. I was like, damn, I love those lyrics. So, but here’s a real news. Like I was talking to somebody they’re like, I have all these email. I literally talked to a consulting client who wanted to hire me, Amy. He has 50,000 emails and he’s never sent an email.
Amy Hall: [00:01:58] Wait, how old is this list? Wait, how long has he been gathering emails?
Bridget Willard: [00:02:03] I think he said four years.
Amy Hall: [00:02:07] Four years, right. Oh,
Bridget Willard: [00:02:12] right.
Amy Hall: [00:02:13] Okay.
Bridget Willard: [00:02:15] I’m like, I know enough that Amy needs to be on the show. And maybe we should talk about what this is. I learned to new words stale when it comes to email, because I know still bread, still bread is what you make French toast with, or crew taunts.
You’re not supposed to feed their animals anymore, but like, that’s it. That’s all you got, but still email list management. I mean, we thought the list was supposed to be big. So first of all, could you just tell us like, What does still mean when it comes to email marketing?
Amy Hall: [00:02:49] So probably that list is pretty stale just because it hasn’t been used at all.
So now email addresses go bad people move just like they moved their house. They move their email address. I don’t know about you, but I probably have six email addresses and I don’t check all of them every single day. So yeah, that’s what a stale email address. It’s one that, that just hasn’t been used.
So am a lot of. Corporations like Gmail, Yahoo, MailChimp, get response, a convert kit. The actually will, plant those email addresses. Well, not on like buying lists and then they check when you add a list, they check it for them. Planted email list. To see if you’re using
Bridget Willard: [00:04:04] wait, it’s
Amy Hall: [00:04:05] called a spam trap.
Jason Tucker: [00:04:08] Oh yeah.
Amy Hall: [00:04:10] So like
Bridget Willard: [00:04:11] a hood, but wait, so wait. So why an email list? Yeah. You could be wasting your money.
Amy Hall: [00:04:22] no. If you buy an email list, you are wasting your money. Not could be. Yes, you are. Because number one, people have not subscribed to your list. They subscribed to something and now somebody’s selling it. Yeah.
Jason Tucker: [00:04:44] Are you talking about, like, if someone were to make like an, a, like either like a Gmail account where they use like the plus sign trick or they’ll put the plus after the first part of their email and then put in like Bridget’s email list and then.
When the email gets sent out, they know it’s coming from them, but then if they, if that gets sold to Jason and now Jason looks at it and he sees the email and he sends off the email, that person goes who’s Jason, why did Jason send us? Is it like that sort of thing? Or is it just like, like a, like a separate account that they set up that you use to test it?
Amy Hall: [00:05:18] What a lot of times they’ll do is they’ll go find all the accounts that don’t get. He used to very often track them. I have a super old account that I’ve had for 15 years. No more than that, but almost 16 years. And, I’m sure that it’s going to be considered a spam trap because you,
Bridget Willard: [00:05:47] because you don’t regularly email from it or.
Amy Hall: [00:05:50] don’t email from it at all anymore. I just receive emails there, but it’s just, if a email address is old MailChimp and MailChimp assumes that it’s not good, clean it, like through a service, the service assumes that it’s not good also. So I. Pretty sure that Gmail is going to assume that it’s not good.
Also. They know how old the email addresses. Wow.
Jason Tucker: [00:06:30] I wonder how that works. Like I’m on the technology side. I don’t know, have to do some research
Bridget Willard: [00:06:37] has to be some kind
Amy Hall: [00:06:38] of,
Jason Tucker: [00:06:39] it’s not like there’s a board on date for an email address, but
Bridget Willard: [00:06:42] maybe there’s a blacklist.
Jason Tucker: [00:06:44] There
Amy Hall: [00:06:44] could be an email list. I
Jason Tucker: [00:06:48] no, for an email address,
Amy Hall: [00:06:51] date for an email address, what date you create that email?
That’s a born on date.
Jason Tucker: [00:06:56] Yeah, but I don’t, I don’t throw a party for it. And then send out invitations survey. Does what day it was created?
Amy Hall: [00:07:01] No, but Gmail knows and MailChimp can look in and see those credentials and they’ll know. Huh?
Bridget Willard: [00:07:09] Okay. So what about like,
Amy Hall: [00:07:11] like it’s a hot, my really old email address as the Hotmail era, but you know, it’s all AOL and EarthLink, you know, it’s old.
Jason Tucker: [00:07:23] Yes. That’s true. That’s true.
Amy Hall: [00:07:27] The agent that has that, right?
Bridget Willard: [00:07:31] Yeah.
Amy Hall: [00:07:31] Because okay.
Bridget Willard: [00:07:32] For a couple of things going on here in my brain, And Jason’s still like trying to figure out the technology of it. He’s going to build a script while we’re
Amy Hall: [00:07:41] talking. So,
Bridget Willard: [00:07:45] when I was at the travel agency, we, were buying mailing, physical mailing address from Nielsen’s.
And then we wanted to track or get the email addresses from that. And even though I said, you can’t do it with, I can spam laws, like she was doing it anyway. Okay. But then I knew that, okay, listen. Back when I was Republican, which I am no longer registered as a Republican, just so everybody knows I’m also no longer blonde.
And I also don’t wear glasses anymore.
Amy Hall: [00:08:23] I
Bridget Willard: [00:08:23] know my asshole puffy. My face is all puffy. I can’t wear eye makeup five days, but here’s the thing AB like I subscribed to Newt Gingrich, cause he was the one I liked. And all of a sudden I’m getting all these emails from people I never subscribed to. But because I use Gigi at blah, blah, blah.com. It didn’t fall into that trap because my email is used because I use that email.
Amy Hall: [00:08:51] it could, it could be a spam problem. Like I can’t tell you what a spam trap. I couldn’t tell you if your email addresses a spam trap, they just. Like use them for them. I
Bridget Willard: [00:09:07] guess what I’m saying is if they, if people buy a list and your active emails on that list, then they can still email you.
Amy Hall: [00:09:17] Well. So the thing about it is, is people can email you once for camp to comply with can spam.
They can email you one. Okay. For that. It has to be opted in. Okay. Like with the new Gingrich thing, he got the list from, you know, the Republicans, whatever, a lot of realtors she does, they get the list. And it’s assumed that when you, as a realtor, when you give your list to the, to the realtor board, Sandy car down here in San Diego, That they’re going to give your email address out, but after one email, if people keep on emailing you and you didn’t opt in, they didn’t ask you to opt in.
Yeah. That’s when you can say it’s spam, but I mean, you could say it’s spam after one. Cause everybody has a hand button. Everybody should use it. Liberally. You mean in your
Bridget Willard: [00:10:26] actual email
Amy Hall: [00:10:30] reader?
Jason Tucker: [00:10:32] Yeah.
Amy Hall: [00:10:34] I don’t call a client. I call it a reader because people get super confused as to what what’s an email client.
So I call it your email reader. Okay. Where you read your emails. That’s the technical term is email client though, but I just hang out with, look at these people.
Jason Tucker: [00:10:56] We’re not going to Google anything. They’re not going to look to look for the answers. It’s okay.
Amy Hall: [00:11:03] Well, no, usually people just ask me what the heck is that?
So how, what
Jason Tucker: [00:11:14] are the, what are the tactics that someone who has a good list should be using to stay out of somebody’s spam, spam box? Like what’s their best way to, to kind of make sure that they’re crafting their emails correctly and they’re putting all their stuff together. Like, what are those tips that you should be following to make that happen?
Amy Hall: [00:11:34] So the first one has nothing to do with email. Oh good. as has nothing to do with the email that you’re building, it has to do with your own email address. So you need to authenticate your domain name with your email service provider, right? So I’m sorry. Say it again
Jason Tucker: [00:11:55] like D Kim or
Amy Hall: [00:11:58] you haven’t gone there yet.
Jason Tucker: [00:11:59] Oh, okay. I’m sorry.
Amy Hall: [00:12:01] You’re stealing my thunder.
Jason Tucker: [00:12:06] research you’d have to figure out.
Amy Hall: [00:12:14] So, the like, MailChimp constant contact convert kit will allow you to authenticate your domain name with them. So it looks like. They’re sending is you instead of masking it as, so you’re going to put a little snippet of text code on your DNS. So it looks like it’s sending from you. Then the second thing to do is the date Kim D Mark.
Okay. And SPF records. D cam. That’s not how you say it. It’s. I always say it wrong
Jason Tucker: [00:12:59] so I can say it. However, I want
Amy Hall: [00:13:02] Jeff
Bridget Willard: [00:13:04] gift.
Amy Hall: [00:13:05] It’s a gift. It’s a Rafik. I know the guy who made it says it’s a Jeff, cause he likes that, you know, better. But
Bridget Willard: [00:13:13] so could you, for the people that don’t know it. Dicamba is a French version of D cam.
What are the, what are the letters for the show notes?
Amy Hall: [00:13:26] Oh my goodness. DKA DKA asked me. So, yeah, I don’t know what it, but it stands for some kind of, Verification you put the Dicamba records on your DNS, the S the Denmark, the Dick, and the SPF. Oh, dang. That was good. they all go on your, DNS, your domain name server.
So the same place that you’re putting that little bit of text code for your email provider. You’re doing that with D Kim. SPF and D Mark
Bridget Willard: [00:14:09] and SPF isn’t for,
Amy Hall: [00:14:11] that’s great.
Super fast. This
Bridget Willard: [00:14:17] is fine.
Amy Hall: [00:14:20] I’ve got a Google,
which is funny.
Jason Tucker: [00:14:26] Cause like, like even these, these types of things like this, like domain keys identified mail, like that doesn’t mean anything to anybody,
Amy Hall: [00:14:34] but. Well,
Jason Tucker: [00:14:39] and the thing is, is that like these developers and these people that come up with these different frameworks and these different ways of doing these things, they’re not good at re renaming anything.
Bridget Willard: [00:14:49] No, because they’re not markers, but those three acronyms is why. I’m hiring Amy to build my trip. Okay. Even with DNS, DNS out, never two. What’s the third one.
Amy Hall: [00:15:03] Well, let me tell you what the decaf okay. The SPF and the D Mark, do they let the inbox know that your email address is a real email address? It’s coming from your real domain and it’s not being spoofed.
So that’s how it keeps things out of the spam box because all of a sudden Gmail knows, Oh, this is a valid, real email address from a valid, real email are their main name and person. So you’re going to get, the email platform authentication so that it looks like it’s sending from you. And then you’re going to make your email address.
So it doesn’t end up in the spam box that way.
Jason Tucker: [00:15:56] This is the last one.
Bridget Willard: [00:15:58] O T M a R C. Okay.
Amy Hall: [00:16:01] D Mark.
Bridget Willard: [00:16:02] Well, just for my, just for when I do the show notes, like,
and also when the translator, the auto translator, whichever service Jason’s using today is translating. It’s not going to know that. No just that either
Jason Tucker: [00:16:24] I’ve seen a lot of, I’ve sent a lot of, of clients of mine who are just starting out with things where they will, they, they don’t even know that these things need to be in there and they go and send off an email. Can you explain what happens when you don’t have these records set up appropriately and you go and send off an email?
Amy Hall: [00:16:42] And even better, they make Dell send their email from MailChimp, from a Gmail email address.
No, we’ve talked about this, Missy,
Bridget Willard: [00:17:00] what I don’t even have, what is a shit.
Amy Hall: [00:17:06] Just get a Bridget willard.com email address
Bridget Willard: [00:17:13] to do that. Dammit. I’ll figure it out.
Amy Hall: [00:17:16] Well, you’re you get it from your hosting provider? So,
Bridget Willard: [00:17:21] no, because, my hosted provider does it do email principle? Does it do email?
Amy Hall: [00:17:27] Oh, so you get it from your domain name, provider
Bridget Willard: [00:17:29] name. Okay. So named secure, dammit. I don’t know, I don’t want to punch emails,
Amy Hall: [00:17:35] but here’s the thing.
You have a 50% open rate of the emails that are getting delivered. So, you know,
Amy Hall: [00:17:51] Yes. Because Gmail doesn’t trust Gmail,
Bridget Willard: [00:17:55] Gmail doesn’t trust you email. No, because like,
Amy Hall: [00:18:00] Look in your spam box where all the spammy email addresses Hotmail.
Jason Tucker: [00:18:16] I love it. When we have guests on the show that have this type of thing, because what it shows is that even the people that are in the know there’s still something that they need to know. Well, that’s
Bridget Willard: [00:18:25] why don’t do this. So clearly I knew to do all these steps cause I’m doing all backed bass ackwards.
Jason Tucker: [00:18:33] Yup.
Amy Hall: [00:18:34] You have a great open rates and there you go. What you’re getting delivered is getting open. Yeah. Well
Bridget Willard: [00:18:40] maybe I’m not getting delivered cause it’s from cheap mail.
Amy Hall: [00:18:43] Well, and the don’t when you have that. Yeah. Yes. So when you have that domain name, When you have it authenticated, that’s going to get a delivered into the general email inbox.
Right. But maybe not the right folder. Right. And when you get the dictum, the D Mark in SPF, that’s going to tell Gmail and Yahoo and Hotmail. no, I’ll wait, to put it into the inbox instead of the spam folder. So that’s why. You can get your developer to do that for you because there
Bridget Willard: [00:19:37] I could, I could go to name, secure.com and make an email.
Amy Hall: [00:19:41] I just got
Bridget Willard: [00:19:41] to figure out how to make it go to my Gmail. So I,
Amy Hall: [00:19:44] I don’t want
Bridget Willard: [00:19:45] to, I’m not going all over the planet. I’ll
Amy Hall: [00:19:48] go into my Gmail.
Bridget Willard: [00:19:50] I would be so much easier. I haven’t paid for the G suite and everything.
Amy Hall: [00:19:55] Really.
Jason Tucker: [00:19:58] So wait, if you paid for G suite, then that’s even,
Amy Hall: [00:20:03] yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:20:08] Man. I just feel so dumb right now, but clearly my head just went,
Jason Tucker: [00:20:15] Amy’s looking at this and looking at this problem saying I do. I deal with this stuff all the time. This is a new person with a new list and a new everything, and they don’t know what to do. And that’s what I love about the show is we could actually be the client that is going like, Oh my
Amy Hall: [00:20:29] gosh, are you kidding me?
Bridget Willard: [00:20:33] This is why I don’t do email marketing. I’ll write the copy for you and send it to you in a, in a Google doc. And that’s it because, and this is what I always tell people. The more I talked to Amy and other people like Jen Miller, email marketing is very technical.
Amy Hall: [00:20:52] Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is. Yeah. If you think about it, an email is a mini website, right?
Bridget Willard: [00:21:02] love that. That’s a great tweet.
Amy Hall: [00:21:03] So you have to have all the accessibility on an email that you have on a website. The thing about email lists is it’s not inherently. Accessible, unless you’re using a text email, but HTML emails are not inherently accessible. You have to put the out tags. Most people do not put any, all tags in their emails.
and there’s no RDO labeling in a. Yeah, email. So you’ve got to be able to add that in and on top of that more and more and more and more and more of our emails are being read on our phone. yeah. On Google home. So, you know, Now we need to have those type of, that type of labeling so that they know what’s there so that they can read it to the person.
So, yeah, it gets more and more. It’s just like building a website, honestly. Wow. And people don’t, people don’t see it as that important, but you’re thinking, okay. Gmail, our emails can get you so many dollars when you’re sending emails and, and advertising purchases, or buy this, buy this, buy this, if you’re not just pimping the buy stuff, but when you’re advertising with your emails, You get a better, purchase rate then like social media, right.
And you have a captive audience they’ve already asked you to market to them. So they want to know what you’re selling, because part of the reason why they asked you to Mark, because they like your stuff. Right. And so you can, yeah. Yes. So in your email,
Bridget Willard: [00:23:19] Okay, so in your emails
Amy Hall: [00:23:23] and make them accessible so that people can actually buy what you have.
So make it a little menu. Think of it as a little mini box.
Jason Tucker: [00:23:36] The accessibility thing is interesting, especially when you get into using something like Alexa or any of those types of services, is that you don’t have those call to actions that you can click on and do things with it. It’s actually less accessible because of that, because you can’t go and say like, okay, now, you know, maybe in the two, but I also want you to push that button.
That’s at the bottom of there. It’s not that one. It’s not this other one. It’s not this other one. Like you can’t do that. So. That makes it even more difficult because it’s like, okay, how do you, how do you structure that email? So we’re going to have to have Amy back to explain how that part of it works, because I would love to hear a little bit more about that side of it.
So keeping out of that, is there some stuff you need to worry about with the content of the email to make sure you’re not going to get thrown into the spam box?
Amy Hall: [00:24:23] So I don’t even worry about email content. Yeah. Don’t send. Phrases that you would use on a sale circular, but I worry about the quality of my list more because it’s, so it’s just like a website.
If you. Get traffic. You’ll have, you can, if you have traffic, you can get more traffic. So if you have opens, you can get more opens. If you get delivered in the inbox, you’ll get delivered into the inbox more, right? So you need to clean your list on a regular basis. And if somebody has an open on the last six to nine months, send a reengagement email.
And ask them to take an action to remain on the list. Don’t just tell them, Oh, if you don’t want to be here, unsubscribe, ask them to take an action and that’s easy to do with, cause I’m an expert. So I do it with MailChimp. If you do an automation, I do three emails over three weeks for our re engagement campaign.
And I actually have them click a button, which takes them out of that marketing message. And then it lands them on a page where I say, thanks for sticking around. Here’s some, you may want to check out my Facebook page or here’s some more resources or whatever the person who’s doing. The reengagement campaign wants them to concentrate on.
So, yeah, so re-engagement cleaner, less cleaner, less if somebody hasn’t opened in nine months, more likely than not, they’re not an open
Bridget Willard: [00:26:14] or they changed jobs. Like you were talking about moving like PR people personally, but also like people change jobs every two years.
Amy Hall: [00:26:24] Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:26:26] And faster and WordPress.
Amy Hall: [00:26:30] That’s
Jason Tucker: [00:26:30] true. That’s true.
Bridget Willard: [00:26:32] High turnover and WordPress.
Jason Tucker: [00:26:34] And you also have those people use. Yeah. You have people that use their, their work email as their personal and only email address. I deal with that all the time.
Amy Hall: [00:26:44] That’s hard too, because I think getting it on their phone, right. Especially with you, you need to be able to get to them on a weekend.
Usually say no. Yeah. All right. So that was a clean your list and re-engage the people who haven’t opened your emails for awhile. Send a reengagement campaign. I need three emails over three weeks. Get people the rain gauge and always monitor your email reputation. So make sure that your domaining has a squeaky clean is squeaky clean.
So I always opt in double opt in your subscribers. tell people what they can expect from your emails and a welcome email so that they’re not surprised and go. Oh, I don’t want this. I’m just going to spam them or I’m going to unsubscribe because if you get subscribed and then immediate unsubscribes and you have too many of those, that can be an issue.
Oh, they take MailChimp, constant contact, convert kit, get response. They take notice of that. Your unsubscribes could not be any higher than 5% of your list at when you send an email. So,
Jason Tucker: [00:28:14] what do you w what do you use to be able to determine if your list is, or sorry if your domain isn’t good standing with that, you
Amy Hall: [00:28:23] just look at this Google black list is my domain is blacklisted.
That’s all right.
Jason Tucker: [00:28:29] Like an RBL list or something like that,
Amy Hall: [00:28:31] or by Google is my domain black.
I just Google it. And there’s a bunch of websites that come up and you can put your domain in. And I usually check three different of those websites that come up. I check three different ones because some of them have different blacklists. and you, you do have to be careful because sometimes it’s, if you’re on a server that shared.
It’s not your domain. That’s blacklisted. It’s somebody else’s domain at the IP address that your server is at can get blacklisted. So you just,
Jason Tucker: [00:29:17] this
Bridget Willard: [00:29:17] is the bad part about being on shared hosting, which most of us are.
Amy Hall: [00:29:21] Yeah.
Jason Tucker: [00:29:22] Yeah. So like a website like this, which was the first
Amy Hall: [00:29:26] one that I use on a regular basis.
Jason Tucker: [00:29:28] Yeah. So you just pulled up doing, look, look real quick here. And in Bridget, I was one of those people that, I checked real fast before I actually do it. And it wouldn’t show this up on the screen and be like,
Amy Hall: [00:29:42] God, I gotta fix it.
Jason Tucker: [00:29:43] But yeah. So one of, you know, one of these websites, especially MX toolbox, they’ve been around forever, company. Yeah. So check them out and do a quick little search just to see how your, your domains looking.
Amy Hall: [00:29:54] And they even suggest how to cert solve the issues that you’re having a lot.
And a lot of times they’ll take her to daycare about gardens will
pick them for her. So that’s what they say a lot of times. So there you go. We already harped on that. So to not get reported as spam, also. Send emails on a consistent basis. I can’t harp enough to send emails on a consistent basis.
Bridget Willard: [00:30:35] Okay. Do you want to define that
Amy Hall: [00:30:38] whatever you think is consistent, but whatever you tell your group, your list that you’re going to send.
So in your welcome email, you can send. You can tell them, Oh, I’m going to send you weekly. I’m going to send you daily. I’m going to send you monthly. I’m gonna send you quarterly. I’m gonna send you twice a year. I’m going to send a yearly. You tell them, and then you follow through on what you tell them.
Right by. I used to say I send infrequent emails. That’s what I used to say, because I just didn’t have time to set myself. And
Jason Tucker: [00:31:18] we, we have a question in the, in one of the chats here. this is from Dane Morgan. He says, with, with some email apps that can, block tracking pixels wouldn’t click throughs be better than opens.
Amy Hall: [00:31:29] Nope. So there’s a lot of reasons why you may not have why a register, open won’t register. So on some phones opens don’t register. If people are looking at a preview, pane opens don’t register, because what, how and open registers is you have to open it. And then there’s that little pixel that has to actually get,
Bridget Willard: [00:31:58] downloaded.
Amy Hall: [00:31:59] Yeah. Whatever, whatever they do to it. so the clickthroughs may not. Be better because do you have clicks crews? Do you have clicks? Some people don’t have clicks in their newsletter. Yeah. Yeah. So no click throughs are not necessarily a better measure. And then what are they clicking on? You know, if you have boxers, what are they clicking on?
So not necessarily a better measure than opens. And if you’re getting somebody with. Nine months worth of not opens and you do a reengagement campaign and they don’t even open the reengagement campaign. I mean, and they don’t take that action to click the button in that reengagement campaign. Cause if they’re opening and they get arrangement campaigns, they’re going to be like, what the heck got open your stuff all the time.
And they’re going to email you back. Right. And they’re going to say, I always open your stuff. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:33:10] I mean, I look at the previous a
Amy Hall: [00:33:12] lot. Yeah. It doesn’t count.
Bridget Willard: [00:33:16] Wow. What a bummer,
Jason Tucker: [00:33:18] but that’s their problem, not your problem, but it’s also your problem. When you send out an email, it’s gonna be your problem.
Amy Hall: [00:33:27] Well, the thing about it is, is like I’m always kind of. I have somebody that a client that sends in an email like I’m on a lot of client lists somebody, a client that sends that email. I make sure I go open every single one. I don’t necessarily click around because if I’m not interested, I’m not going to click.
That’s not, it. That’s actually not a good practice. It’s kind of like lying, but, but I always open and you can just know from now on, Hey, I just need to open. So I can’t use a preview pane. It makes my brain hurt, live
Jason Tucker: [00:34:06] and die by it.
Amy Hall: [00:34:09] Yeah. No. And I used to use that all the time, but how interesting. Yeah, it makes me crazy.
There’s just too much information. All in one place. It makes my brain just.
Inbox zero. Wow.
Bridget Willard: [00:34:31] That’s amazing. I don’t know. I’m I’m still one of those people. That’s those are the things I need to deal deal with. So
Amy Hall: [00:34:40] I get to obsessive compulsive on I can’t handle, but. Clutter
Bridget Willard: [00:34:51] between the two of you somewhere. okay. So we don’t want to get report as spam. So we definitely need to use an email with our domain name that we have verified it’s really us and told everybody and their mom that’s really us, all the people that matter, Google everybody.
and we don’t.
Amy Hall: [00:35:14] Email is mine or
Bridget Willard: [00:35:16] whatever. Like there are still people using AOL emails for some reason, and, and outlook and whatever. so we, we want to make sure that we. Send consistent emails, but the double opt in, cause I add people to my list and then I have a welcome email and says you’ve been out of the two slips because you’ve expressed interest in my products or services I send email about once a month and then I don’t always do it cause I don’t always like I haven’t done it lately because with COVID it’s like, yeah, No,
Amy Hall: [00:35:58] or got nothing at all was COVID like, I got so many emails.
It. I was like, dude, I have not heard from you in two years. And all of a sudden I get a code
Jason Tucker: [00:36:13] and then they’re telling you about their store. That’s in like Tennessee. And I’m like, I don’t live anywhere near to see what are you asking me to go to your store for? And I’m not going to go to your store. And it’s like, ah, I
Bridget Willard: [00:36:22] hear about you. I mean, I was, I was hoping your retail store was safe from, you know, germs in general.
So. Right. I mean like people,
Amy Hall: [00:36:34] Oh my God. No,
Bridget Willard: [00:36:37] like, have you gotten the flu? And I mean, I’m not saying Kobe isn’t real, I’m saying regular stuff. We all get all the time. The just clean the counter top just gross. Oh
Amy Hall: [00:36:53] my God. I’m the mask enough in the hand, Samsung hand sanitizer. But yeah. Yeah. Anyway,
Bridget Willard: [00:37:03] it’s still like, I don’t want to send useless emails.
I don’t want to get stuck in, you know, but, I also don’t click spam on things. I just unsubscribe.
Amy Hall: [00:37:14] Yeah, I do on some of them. And then some of ’em on like,
there’s a lot better spam that come through. There’s a lot better Spanish. Now me in two years, I know I unsubscribed for me because I know I am subscribed from you. And once a year I go through and I was subscribed cause I signed up to a lot. So I go and unsubscribe for a lot. Right. And I there’s some service that I use
Jason Tucker: [00:37:49] or one of those types of
Amy Hall: [00:37:50] that’s it.
Yeah, that’s all I unsubscribed. So I know that I was unsubscribed. And then I got the email from him on my spam. You just changed your email service provider and
Jason Tucker: [00:38:06] didn’t carry out.
Bridget Willard: [00:38:09] And as an aside for those single ladies who are dating really cute guys and Whittier who are single, Oh,
Jason Tucker: [00:38:19] I’m married. Sorry.
Bridget Willard: [00:38:22] when you block a phone number, Just block it. If you delete it, it’s not blocked anymore.
Amy Hall: [00:38:31] They can still call. Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:38:33] So cause people say my friends will say, girl, hit it off block or delete. No, just block. And then keep that number. On your phone, because if you delete it, then they could contact you. I had a guy contact me and I’m pretty easy to find, but I don’t usually have stalkers.
I just have of the Russian hackers who want me to take care of their children, but like, I’ll get them from, from Instagram and then they’ll find me on. You know, all these other messaging platforms. And so when I did, I did that by mistake. I deleted a bunch of numbers. I’m like, who is this? Delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, guess what?
They all come back. So if you block number, keep it in your phone. Is that true too? For email?
Amy Hall: [00:39:26] So that’s like the email reader, I would assume so. Okay. I don’t know so much about the email readers, but I would assume so. Yeah. Because
Bridget Willard: [00:39:38] it’s so easy to be like, I don’t want all these people in my phone. I don’t want all these addresses.
And then you’re like, Whoa, they’re all coming back. Who are the new phone? Who dis
Amy Hall: [00:39:49] I
Jason Tucker: [00:39:49] could, I could speak a tiny bit into it in that if you leave the contact in there, the contact it. There’s some things that we’ll look to see if a contact exists and if I contact exists, then it will allow you to, to receive that email.
the other thing is, is sometimes you have the services where you send out where the service will scan your email address for you to like find new friends on some new social network or whatever. And
Amy Hall: [00:40:13] the
Jason Tucker: [00:40:13] last thing you want to have at do is send off an email to the ex boyfriend or ex who dated letting them know.
So I personally, I would just delete it. Delete just a matter of your life and you’re done, but
Bridget Willard: [00:40:27] for emails, delete and keep for phone numbers.
Amy Hall: [00:40:34] We’re talking about blocking, blocking email addresses, not just trashing an email. Okay. You’re trashing it. And basically you’re throwing it in the trashcan. Right. We were talking about. Locking an email address? Well,
Bridget Willard: [00:40:55] I mean, I, because some people that I talked to. Gen pop people think it’s the same thing.
That’s why I wanted to kind of like
Jason Tucker: [00:41:04] right. Yeah. No different
Bridget Willard: [00:41:08] to delete and block that number
Jason Tucker: [00:41:11] quick. Have a quick question. So with I’ve I’ve, I’ve been seeing this as a, like, this is a trend that’s been bothering me for probably the last year in that I’m been getting these drip campaigns for marketers that they’re sending an email as if it’s their own email.
I go look in the email headers, cause I know what I’m doing and I’ll see that they’re using some service to send off their emails and it’s kinda coming through, you know, that, that email reader you’re talking about. So because of that, I tell them, Hey, I can’t unsubscribe to you cause there’s no unsubscribe footer.
So, Get me off your list. And then no joke. I get another email from them like a day later. Cause I, cause I know how their campaign set up and I’ll keep sending them emails saying, Hey, remove me from your list. Remove me from your list. And one time I did the reverse of what all these people do and I go on LinkedIn and I go find him.
And then I sent him a message and I’m like, Hey, you’re sending me these emails. Can you check to make sure that your email set up is set up correctly and you’re making yourself look bad. So, what, what do you say for someone like that? Who’s sending off those emails because you can’t really, you can, you can spam them if the spam button and make that happen in, you know, in that email reader, but outside of that, you don’t really have any recourse to like tell their system to stop sending you, you know?
Amy Hall: [00:42:29] Well, it’s against the law for them to send you an email without a subscribe button. So hit the spam.
Jason Tucker: [00:42:36] Yup.
Amy Hall: [00:42:37] If they do not give you the option hit the spam because they need to be penalized for not following along. Oh dear. I sound. Like, they need to go a time out in the corner, but
Bridget Willard: [00:42:55] maybe they do
maybe, well, I guess a loss of privacy it’s it’s no, we have it’s the whole GDPR thing with websites. We have a right to say, we don’t want you to have our data. Right now we have 5,000 cookies every time we, I mean, popups, every time we go to a website, which is so annoying and a totally different episode, but like, so a lot of times in female, it’ll say unsubscribe or some will say you haven’t been opening emails from this person.
Would you like to unsubscribe? That’s something I’ve really enjoyed about Gmail. She emails, reader. That’s
Jason Tucker: [00:43:39] cool.
Amy Hall: [00:43:40] I can see that. I must say
Jason Tucker: [00:43:45] you have to have the reading pane open. How about that? We’ll just say,
Amy Hall: [00:43:50] click,
Bridget Willard: [00:43:50] click, click, delete. And then I click and I go Marcus unread, but I haven’t read it yet, but I can’t have it. I can’t have the alert, but I want email from Mark Manson cause it’s helpful to me right now in my life, but I just, I don’t have time to read it today.
So don’t show me that I have an unread email. I read it when I want to read it. Dammit like that’s me.
Amy Hall: [00:44:12] I’ll see. I can’t have unraveled.
Bridget Willard: [00:44:17] Okay. So
Jason Tucker: [00:44:19] we’re going to
Bridget Willard: [00:44:19] transition.
Amy Hall: [00:44:21] Let’s talk about our torch of the week
Jason Tucker: [00:44:23] before we do that, let’s talk about the, our sponsor for our tool trip. The week outweighs whether it’s an existing website or a project on your drawing board cloud weighs offers a hosting environment with all the features you need to succeed online.
A lot of ways extends your in house team takes care of all the server management issues and let you focus on building amazing websites for your online business. Start a three day free [email protected]om. That’s cloud ways.com. Reiteration Bridget reiteration.
Bridget Willard: [00:45:01] seriously. I, I ha I went to a, I’ve associate ESPN yesterday, and I heard about man create.com. Right. And I was like, this is perfect timing. Cause I need somebody to send it to my stepdad for father’s day, which is the 20th. And I found this really cool tool box with a bunch of different exotic beef jerkies, but not all beef, venison and weird stuff.
And then they’re like, and you can get 20% off if you go to man crate.com/streaming man
Amy Hall: [00:45:31] crazy
Bridget Willard: [00:45:33] man, create.com/. Streaming. And that’s how you do a radio ad. So if you guys want to sponsor our show, we will edit the script you give us so that we will, I read it, but my total tip a week is something I’ve talked about before, but I’ve used it so much lately.
I’m talking about it again. Word html.com. Super simple. Okay. So if I, like, I like to do, I like to write in Google docs, it’s better for collaboration and sharing that kind of thing, but also it’s kinda like having a backup and I find, I, I do, I have been writing more a LA I originally used to just write on my blog.
Isn’t that funny with clappy, it’s just
like five Clippy right
Jason Tucker: [00:46:33] there. I can see them at a time to make that go away, but you can see them now.
Bridget Willard: [00:46:37] Anyway. So, the thing is. When you copy and paste from a Google doc into your WordPress blog, other span codes, unless you’re using the new WordPress editor 5.0 and above, which is called Gutenberg. But most of my sites that I work on for clients have the classic editor installed.
So if you are working on a site that has the. Native editor and WordPress 5.0 above, which is called Gutenberg. Then you cut and paste from Google docs. No problem. It’s Spendless it takes out the spans. It’s the best thing about Gutenberg, but if you’re like me and you have class together installed, you can’t do that.
So. Instead, I paste it into word HTML, and then I go to the HTML part and I go and I click clean code and then I copy and paste it. And then I paste it back. My text editor of my blog, say the preview bill, all my headings. And everything’s the way I want it.
Amy Hall: [00:47:35] Yeah. Okay. You know that if you, I liked it. If you were on the visual area and you highlight the whole thing and you do that clean, it would take the spans out.
Bridget Willard: [00:47:51] No,
Amy Hall: [00:47:53] no,
Bridget Willard: [00:47:53] I didn’t know that. Yeah,
Amy Hall: [00:47:54] it does
Bridget Willard: [00:47:55] in the old one. Yeah.
Amy Hall: [00:48:00] Not
Bridget Willard: [00:48:03] so much for that. I mean, whatever
Amy Hall: [00:48:09] works.
Bridget Willard: [00:48:14] drip campaign that I edited a 24 drip campaign. Like I said, I don’t put it in the email program, but I will edit the copy, but I had to turn the copy in as it shell. So I used that tool. Oh,
Amy Hall: [00:48:29] that’s actually a good idea. Wow. That’s good.
Bridget Willard: [00:48:35] I mean, that was what the client wanted. I’m not in their program, but they didn’t want a Google doc.
They wanted, they gave me the HTML pro I had to download sublime, which I paid for and it’s awesome.
Jason Tucker: [00:48:48] Fun stuff. Okay.
Bridget Willard: [00:48:50] That’s it. That’s all I got.
Amy Hall: [00:48:53] I’m not going to,
Jason Tucker: [00:48:54] I’m not going to break your bullet in your brain explaining some really cool stuff you can do with it, but it has some has some, some super powers.
Amy Hall: [00:49:01] I’m from orange County. They’re like from Westminster. I think
Jason Tucker: [00:49:05] the band is yet, but sublime text is
Amy Hall: [00:49:09] to be a joke.
Bridget Willard: [00:49:16] Otherwise it starts singing the version of summertime.
Amy Hall: [00:49:19] Oh, yeah. And my son’s name is Louis and he always talks about his new dog. And I was always like, Oh, do you
Bridget Willard: [00:49:28] have a tour tip first? Besides this Austin, this, do you have a freebie? You want to give us an a tool?
Amy Hall: [00:49:36] Oh, I freebie. If you want, I have a slide deck that I present this, this talk.
So, if you want the slide deck, just email me and I’ll send you the slide deck. I should have it as a blog post by, so you could go down and I could get your email address now, just, you know, me, Amy and Amy. How about this? I actually do have a tool, so I tried a new, email. Validation service, where it cleans your emails from, and it gets rid of those spam traps that you have on your list.
And it’s called Kickbox and it worked really well. And I’ve been using one for a long time. And the last time I used it, it was not good. So yeah, kickboxing. I don’t know why they called it. Kickbox is kind of weird, but
Jason Tucker: [00:50:32] yeah, there’s a lot of, so many domain names
Bridget Willard: [00:50:35] to MMA.
Amy Hall: [00:50:38] Yeah. Just
Jason Tucker: [00:50:40] not bad.
Amy Hall: [00:50:41] No, they’re not bad at all, but like
Bridget Willard: [00:50:44] $5 for 2,500 that’s one, the cheapest I’ve seen.
Jason Tucker: [00:50:50] Yeah. That’s not bad. So
Bridget Willard: [00:50:52] when they clean, what does that, what does that mean? They removed the parked ones. So
Amy Hall: [00:50:58] they look at how old is an email address is how, if it’s been opened in, in the last and a certain timeframe, if it’s being used, that’s they look at soft bounces, hard bounces, that kind of stuff. So cool.
Jason Tucker: [00:51:17] does this tie into, to your, you know, whoever you’re using for sending out your emails or do you do this, do you do this. Emails.
Amy Hall: [00:51:27] I think it does tie in, but I never tie it in. I do it for clients.
Jason Tucker: [00:51:33] Gotcha.
Amy Hall: [00:51:34] So, yeah, I just don’t, I usually and then only the plain stuff then about, I don’t like having that dirtiness and yeah,
Jason Tucker: [00:51:49] no, that makes sense.
Amy Hall: [00:51:51] So
Bridget Willard: [00:51:52] they gave you a CSV, you upload it, you get a new CSV and then they can send it to there. Okay, cool. Yes.
Amy Hall: [00:51:59] And the thing about it is, is it doesn’t, they count, doesn’t get pinged that you have bad email addresses in it, so you don’t have to ding against you because it’s not really a ding, but it isn’t ding, they’re going to be watching you because you have that email addresses.
Bridget Willard: [00:52:16] like it’s all, you know, they they’re alerted to you.
Amy Hall: [00:52:20] Yes.
Bridget Willard: [00:52:27] Okay. Sometimes to email over there. No,
Amy Hall: [00:52:34] actually it’s my assistant going, Hey, you need to leave
Jason Tucker: [00:52:41] I’m streaming on the internet right now.
Amy Hall: [00:52:44] I did let her not before.
Jason Tucker: [00:52:46] So, yeah, mine, I’ve been, I’ve been, I’ve been working, for, for a couple of different folks and needing to be able to keep track of my time of the different things that I’m doing.
in my, at work I’ve been dealing with, time-tracking of various projects that a staff member will give me this thing, I call it like an internal customer. I deal with them and I, I need to make sure everything’s working correctly, but I also want to. Respect my time, as well as respect, like the, the project’s time as well.
So it’s like, I need to kind of work through these things. And so, I’ve been, working with a, and this is the wrong product before I send it or show it to you is Nope, that’s not it either. So let me see here, let me pull
Amy Hall: [00:53:30] it up real fast before
Jason Tucker: [00:53:31] I share this thing. So the, it’s a, it’s an iPhone app.
Amy Hall: [00:53:38] And
Jason Tucker: [00:53:39] Oh man, it’s not doing it. All right. Here we go. It’s an iPhone app. And what it does, is it, darn it’s not loading. Let me check here. Sorry. I had this open way before and then I, I closed it and didn’t have it, set up here. So what it is is it’s a time tracker. And the time tracker is set up so that I can keep track of the different projects that I’m working on.
And I can look to see if I should be working on a particular project or not, or, or any of that. And so I’ve been using this thing called Timerlay.
Amy Hall: [00:54:19] Oh, but it’s
Jason Tucker: [00:54:21] not unfortunately like that name, like, I don’t know the domain name for it. Oh, I’m sorry, folks. Okay. Frustrating.
Amy Hall: [00:54:34] Let me see if
Jason Tucker: [00:54:34] I can get it to lit up here.
So, I’ve been using this thing called time really. And what time really does is it makes it so that, Oh, it’s cause I’m writing it wrong. Oh, that makes sense. Okay. Let’s try that again. So what this, what this thing does is it works for the software called toggle and. And so what I like about what I like about toggle is it, it lets me be able to keep track of the different times for the projects that I’m doing, but toggles interface on the Mac as well as on their website really sucks.
I’m not a fan of it. but, but this timer app, maybe
Amy Hall: [00:55:14] timer,
Jason Tucker: [00:55:14] timer. Yeah, timer. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And toggle as well as T O G G L. So, toggle is a great service, to be able to kind of, manage your time on various projects that you’re working on. You can set a timer, the timer will play, play through, and then you’ll be able to see, like what projects you’re actually working on.
And what, time entries you have for those projects. And then, you can, you know, essentially run a report off of it and say, okay, client a here’s how long it took me to work on this thing. And it works on the iPhone as well as the iPad. A lot of the podcasts that I listened to that do time management type of stuff on their podcasts.
They’ve been requesting to have, a iPhone app or sorry, a watch app. So you could be able to do it off of your watch. They don’t have that set up just yet, but, being able to do this, in using this particular app with. Toggle. So toggle itself as its own, it’s its own, thing that you’d need to set up.
So if you go to toggle, it’s free time, try and tracking. You can go in here and kind of set everything up. And build these this, and then if you go and download and buy this, this particular plugin or this particular, app for the iPhone, you’ll be able to use this. There also are some for Android as well.
but it just makes it so that you can use toggle without toggles kind of horrible interface. And it just makes it so you can run everything through, through this. And even the guy from toggle is like, yeah, my, my interface, isn’t the greatest, but at least with this on your phone, you can just do everything straight through the phone.
And it’s like super simple, nice and easy. So yeah, go check them out. time Marie and, toggle. Those are the two that I would, I would recommend
Bridget Willard: [00:57:03] to better doesn’t work on the watch. People love that thing. Yeah,
Jason Tucker: [00:57:09] I use my watch for darn near everything. The only
Bridget Willard: [00:57:12] thing that bugs me and I will say this cause I’m old.
The only thing that bugs me about people with their watches, the full five notches. Cause I have very many friends that have that. Is that a lot of times they’ll be going like this
Jason Tucker: [00:57:27] indicator. Yeah, no,
Bridget Willard: [00:57:28] no, no. Something’s going on and they needed, they need to look at it. I get it. But. When people do this, I think they got something better to do.
Like they need to leave. It’s just ingrained in me because I do it. And I have a water watch as I start,
Amy Hall: [00:57:45] like,
Bridget Willard: [00:57:46] okay. So I haven’t learned, I, since I started playing guitar, which I haven’t played in forever, but since I started playing guitar in like 2000, so 20 years I’ve watched, I still go like, At what time is it everybody watching them speaking, but when people are going like this subconsciously, it’s like, Oh my gosh, I need to leave the, you know, the time is up.
Isn’t that a funny thing, but I know it’s I know like consciously, they just got an email and they got to just check it or, or the thing is telling them to stand up. Cause they do what their watch says. It’s not a funny thing. It’s a weird.
Amy Hall: [00:58:22] My boss, I have to do it. It’s Oh, I
Jason Tucker: [00:58:27] want to wrap up. So, Amy, can you tell us where the, where people can find you and how they can be able to send you an email so that they can add it into your list?
Jason Tucker: [00:58:56] awesome. We’ll
make sure we get people a sense over there and we’ll make sure it’s also in our show notes too. So thank you very much, Amy, for being on the show with us, I’m not going to play our outro.
Here we go.
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