Does it feel like print media is obsolete? It is if you don’t do it right. Print is just one component of your marketing pillars. In this episode, Jason and Bridget have a conversation with Keith Besherse about how to make the best use of print media in a digital world.
Strategy, tactics, getting it done on time and on budget. What would you like to know?
Keith has a companion resource to go with this episode that you may find helpful.
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Strategy is Strategy
Keith spent over 20 years in the military (thank you!) and when approached to run a print shop realized that logistics are the same regardless of the industry. You can coordinate print and digital media to work for success in your campaign. This strategy works in battle and in marketing.
“As we used to say in the Calvary, ‘Coordinate. Anticipate. Verify.” Keith Besherse
Print is one part of your marketing strategy. Your website is anther. Social media, networking events, ad campaigns, are all part of an overall strategy.
Who is your audience? What is the message? Is it valuable to them? These are the questions you need to ask yourself before launching tactics to support your strategy.
The audience and message should drive a marketing plan; not the platform or channel.@bridgetmwillard made a great point about the tactile and emotional experience of reading a printed piece.
And @jasontucker said print marketing carries authenticity. https://t.co/DjM081qJAf
— Keith Besherse (@KeithBesherse) July 11, 2020
Efficient Isn’t Always Better
We like easy. We like efficient. We love the web. It’s fluid and living and breathing not to mention much easier (and cheaper) to fix mistakes.
Writing on the internet is easy. Writing for print is hard. Does that mean print is dead? No.
Print media paired with a good landing page will confirm the data that you have.
We can now predict a correlation between email, phone, address of people, Keith reminds us. Print media is powerful because it is personal and tactile. People respond to it. When they go to your landing page, those data points are validated.
“It is a visceral reaction: this is a substantive message.” Keith Besherse
Branding is the Whole Experience
Branding is about the whole experience a customer has with your brand, front to back, soup to nuts, the whole nine yards. You get the point.
You will meet people at conferences. You will want outreach campaigns. You will want print to accompany your landing pages. You will want to qualify leads. Print is your perfect companion. Touching a piece of media has an effect that is lasting.
It takes 7-12 touches to help create a buying decision and a branding impression regardless if your campaigns are digital or print. You may as well make the most of it.
Not All Designers Can Design for Print
As Keith Besheres says, “Ask your designer if they have a history with print.”
This is so important because of bleed, color limitations, and other print-only problems. The designer who works in print as well as digital (it’s all media) will have a printer he or she works with, too. This is to your benefit.
You’ll want to watch or listen to the whole episode so you don’t miss out on these gems.
Tool Or Tip Of The Week
Your ad could have been here.
Keith recommends leveraging big data for small businesses. This is why he started The Lead Leader.
Jason recommends Snapfax. Yes, there are some people (cough doctor’s offices cough) who still use fax machines.
Bridget recommends taking a break from screens and reading a paper book that doesn’t have to do with work.
Editor’s Note: Transcriptions of episodes are created with a mix of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain some grammatical errors or slight deviations from the audio.
EP166 – Print Isn’tt Dead – Print Without Digital is Dead – Smart Marketing Show
Jason Tucker: [00:00:00] Episode number 166 of the smart marketing show print. Isn’t dead.
Thank you to our sponsors ServerPress makers of DesktopServer they make local WordPress development easy, check them out at
your name here. If you haven’t sponsored with us you should. wpwatercooler.com/sponsor.
Thank you to our patrons over on Patreon, where the patreon.com/wpwatercooler. I am Jason Tucker IT developer and director, and web developer. Who’s going to follow me over at @
jasontucker on twitter. It’s my friend, Bridget Willard.
She’s a marketing consultant all over
youtoocanbeaguru on Twitter.
And this is our guest. I’m excited to talk to Keith today. How are you doing Keith?
Keith Besherse: [00:01:04] everyone I’m doing very well?
Jason Tucker: [00:01:08] Good. I’m glad to hear it.
Keith Besherse: [00:01:11] Cool. I’m important to this conversation with
Jason Tucker: [00:01:14] Keith. I listened to the pronunciation that you sent me and
told us, tell us a little bit more about you keep and especially your last name.
Keith Besherse: [00:01:30] Okay. Okay. Since, since you, since you started it that way, Jason talked to her easy Willard is pretty straightforward. my grandfather was an infantry man in world war II, and I have a, an opinion of my last name. Oh, there were multiple years where he or my father could have.
Had a legal name change and made it more phonetic and they chose not to therefore will not. My name is . It’s spelled the way it’s spelled and I’m, I’m going to keep it because of my commitment to my grandfather and my father who served in Vietnam. Okay.
Jason Tucker: [00:02:11] That’s awesome. Thank you. Thank you for that. I appreciate a little bit of the history behind it.
I too am doing some genealogy work, which requires a lot of looking through paper, especially digital digitized versions of paper. And, and yeah, at some point in my family history, someone changed their last name as well. And, we have a lot of Germans that came over. They just changed their name to something else and it made it worse.
I don’t understand it so
well, it looks like you lucked out. So that’s awesome. So today, today we’re gonna be talking about brick, which is what I was alluding to a little bit while we were to, when we were talking about this and, and, is print even dead. Is it dead? I don’t know. We’re going to find out from Keith. So Keith, tell us a little bit about like, Your background in print, like, why are you even on the show about print?
W w what do you got going on there? Okay.
Keith Besherse: [00:03:02] Yeah. Yeah. So, I was in the army for, Oh, that’s worse. I was in the army for over 24 years active duty. and I thought I was going to take that experience and because going to operations, operations, or logistics, And, as I started engaging with my local community where I was trying, when I was looking for work, this guy says, yeah, I’ve got a perfect opportunity for you.
I’ve got a print shop. I’m not ready to sell it yet. Come take over. And, and, and we’ll see how it goes. And we’ll do a reevaluation three, five years. Why would anyone want to be in printing in the 21st century? And, hemming and hawing, some, some soul searching. And thank you. Okay. If the credit you left there, Bridget.
And I said, okay, okay. What we’re talking about is a small team leadership. I that’s what I do. we’re talking about production. It just happens to be turning ink, ink, and paper into a thing. Right. We’re talking about lean six Sigma, where I walk into this shop and I can see the inefficiencies. And I know, I know intuitively that I know how to fix them.
I just don’t know technically yet how to fix them. So I say, okay, let me take this on. And as I started working on running the shop and my main role was the outside sales. I’ve got to convince people that they need to buy printing. And what I found was that nobody buddy in the B to B market is buying printing because they just love printing.
Even those of us who love to touch a physical book, we don’t buy the book for the book. The tactile experience is part of it, of the enjoyment of the material of the book. Right. similarly, no one is buying a print piece, whether it’s as simple as a business card or whether it’s a postcard or a book.
Sure. No one is buying that piece to hang on a wallet.
Yeah. But that’s called art. That’s right. That’s a different thing. And yes, in the print world, we can re we can do reproductions of art, but that’s not what the bread and butter of a print shop. right. So, so what I was talking with people, I was realizing that really what we’re talking about as a marketing strategy of which print is a component, right?
So what, what matters is. Who is the audience? Who is the audience? What is the message we’re trying to communicate to that audience? Does that message have value to that audience? And if not, I’m trying to get my fingers on a good background, then we need to shut up, right? Because doing them a disservice, we’re creating noise in their environment and we’re not providing any help to them.
We’re not doing anything for them. So once you talk about that strategy, now we can, now we can discuss what pillars, hold that strategy up. And print just becomes one of those pillars to hold that strategy up the message on that print piece. And how are we getting that print piece in front of the audience?
Bridget Willard: [00:06:25] And it, it kind of brings it alive, you know, like, as everybody knows, fat dog creatives, Rhonda did my website and this one. And so like she designed my cards. And like, even though she did sign my site, she also did sign my car, which you printed. Thank you. So like she designed them so that, you know, it would be like, even though it’s, you know, it’s like this, because the first rule is sales is put the product in their hand.
Right. So if you’re digital, how do you put the product in your hand? You know, but if they see this and then they go to my website, it will be familiar. So that’s one role in which print, because if it didn’t matter that I would just, I would just get one of those QR code things, previous tool or tip of the weeks, and then when, you know, but even still, like the thing is you’re touching it and it’s a reminder it’s and, I love that part of it because it’s so valuable, but like more specifically.
How, how can, like, I know nonprofits, nonprofits love print. They won’t stop printing, but every time I get it, something from the SPCA, the world wildlife fund or whomever, I’m like y’all are wasting all of our donations, printing stuff. Just send me an email. So like, But it must be effective because they’re doing it.
So like, how do you coordinate your print digital campaigns?
Keith Besherse: [00:08:06] Well, so let me, let me say this about that first. I’m going to do a promotional for somebody who has no idea that I even care. there was an entity called print relief. So spelt with the second word. Second part of the word is, so I’d like to plant a leaf on a plant print for relief. and they actually, so one of the things you can, when you’re talking to your print shop is you can say, Hey, do you, are you a member of print relief?
They have a contract where the print shop funds print relief to free do reafforestation more than one. So you can actually be doing an environmental conservation thing by buying printing. So you’re printing your weed. They literally replant two trees for every one part to put turned into. Nice. Okay.
So, so the issue though, is. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. So print relief. okay.
Bridget Willard: [00:09:06] print and digital.
Keith Besherse: [00:09:08] How do you coordinate your digital and your print? And what I’d really love to do is get to what the lead leader does in a moment. But first I’ll just talk about generically. Yeah. First, just conceptually, When you put that message out, that is your marketing strategy.
The key, the key question, the question, the next question about which pillars you’re going to use to support that marketing strategy is where is your audience? Where are they listening? The reason that sprint has always consistently gotten a one to 2% response rate is we know people are listening in their houses.
When that mail piece shows up in the mailbox, they have to physically touch it. They have to touch it. At least three times. They take it out. Well, they have tickets. I have to touch it twice. Realistically, they touch it three times. They take it out of their mailbox. They put it on the kitchen counter. They put it in the recycle bin.
You touched it. Those three, this trust their eyes three times. There you go. Nice. it’s crossed over three times. You’ve got three impressions out of that one piece. It’s always been really hard to correlate whether that particular person showed up in the store or not. but on average, the specific, the statisticians of the world were able to confirm during the 60, 50, 60 seventies, eighties, that the risk that is the response rate, you’re getting a one to 2% response rate.
Yeah, have all these other channels. So making sure. And so Bridget, it goes through the, of what you just showed about your business card. And I really appreciate the opportunity to print it. If your business card has a different imagery and a different emotional components, emotional feel from your website, you create this dichotomy in people’s minds and they don’t know what to do with it.
Yeah. So just the making sure that you’re using the same designer and, and you’re validating the consistency across all those channels is one of the key components. I’m just making sure that your, your total messages is coordinated and synchronized.
Jason Tucker: [00:11:18] yeah. And that’s T that’s typically because of the fact that the person is mostly Rhonda,
Keith Besherse: [00:11:24] Rhonda.
Jason Tucker: [00:11:25] Yeah. Like, they’re going to be holding that business card and then looking at it and then typing in the website. I, that they’re going to be going to, or like we were talking about in the previous, you know, you have like a QR code that is on a card that somebody would scan or something like that. Or they’re going to pull out the card to make a phone call to call you.
For your services or they’re going to find your email, like all of the call to actions are listed on that business card, not this one in particular, but, but all of those call to actions are on that card. So the person is going to look at it, then they’re going to go and execute off of that. do you feel that like, the reason why, print is, is so, important for the strategy is that there’s either been a, authenticity that’s behind it.
Or that there’s something where there’s a, it feels like it’s official business. So like for instance, I have like, you know, I have a, I have a letter, like from the BMV where I needed to renew my, my tags for my car. you know, for licensing purposes, if they were to send me an email with that, I probably wouldn’t for one, I’d probably think it’s fake.
Because it just, it doesn’t have an authentic feel to it. But the other part of it is, is that, this is an action item because now I’m like holding onto this stuff thing. And it’s like, by me receiving this thing, I actually have to do something with it. do you feel that business cards have that same kind of feeling to them as well?
That it’s an action item or something that you’re going to throw into the queue that you’re going to have to look into later?
Keith Besherse: [00:13:02] maybe not a business card, but a flyer or, or a brochure. I think that the, the business card is kind of a transition piece, but I, but I, I agree with the point you’re making that, That authenticity is a word that used, that the, the experience of actually touching it makes it feel real. So I can get effectively exact same message in a, in a postcard who says, Hey, I want to buy your house or I can get a message in my text in a text message.
Say, Hey, I want to buy your house. When it’s in my text message it’s seems like a scam anyway. And then when they have the wrong person’s name and the wrong address, then I know they got bad data. Well, then we’ll talk about data in a minute. this one came to my house, clearly, whoever real estate agent wants to buy my house has the right person and the right address and they’ve correlated it.
And it feels like it’s something that I should. Actually that I have to at least consider not just delete block. Right. And Jason, you worry about email is really similar. I’ve got lots of emails stacked up in, in AMIA email right here. And yeah, I’m not blocking these people, but I’m also not reading everything.
Bridget Willard: [00:14:25] Yeah. I mean, it could, I mean, it’s kind of a, all out assault on many fronts. If you want to go back to military strategy, which is one of my favorite things to talk about in marketing. Cause it’s not that. I mean, it’s pretty the same. So like, that’s what happened with ocean Honda. They send me emails, they send me text messages.
They called me and they send me letters saying they wanted to buy back my 2015. And then I wrote them back and I’m like, there’s no way you’re going to qualify me for a loan. They’re like, no, no, no, we will. And one day I just couldn’t take it anymore. I wanted it to stop. I want to stop. So my white flag, what’s going in, they’re calling their bluff.
Well, now I’m leasing a 20, 26. So they won, but I had to make it stop because it was innocent. It was in a marketing assault. It was a barrage of, I want to buy your car. And I couldn’t take it anymore. So clearly it was very effective.
So how, I mean, how are you like, so,
Keith Besherse: [00:15:39] yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:15:41] Yeah. I mean, that’s what I’m saying. Like, well, that was opening that door for you. I know you spent 24 years of your life. I thank you. My dad was in Vietnam too. I was just thinking the other day that if the Vietnam conflict had never happened, I wouldn’t have been born.
Keith Besherse: [00:15:59] Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:16:03] Kind of interesting.
Keith Besherse: [00:16:04] I was born nine months after my dad caught back from Vietnam.
Bridget Willard: [00:16:09] So
Keith Besherse: [00:16:09] same do the math. So, so in, yeah, exactly. Right. In in the military, know in a pure nation war where you got forced on force, that’s a different thing. That’s not what I’m getting ready to talk about, but in a insurgency or counter-insurgency where you’ve got people disputing with violence over the political future of a particular country.
we have the spectrum and there are people who are always going to support the government. And we have people who are opposed to the government and you’re not going to change their mind, but in the end that 10 or 15% on each end of the spectrum. And then there’s 70% of the middle who we’re actually talking to.
And what we’re trying to do is take whoever, whoever the bad guy is and isolate him and discount him so that people don’t pay attention to that message. And we’re trying to take whoever we want to agree with and get more people to pay attention. They’re not, not listening to us, listen to what these people are saying.
Right. In a military counter-insurgency or insurgency, we do have the option to drop a JDM bomb through the roof in marketing. We don’t have that option. It’s not, it’s not ethically.
Bridget Willard: [00:17:39] Okay.
Jason Tucker: [00:17:39] I think it did for, you know, a lot of stuff in the mail during a political campaign, legal
Keith Besherse: [00:17:44] violence, or violence, depending on.
Yeah, you can word it very aggressively. Sure.
Jason Tucker: [00:17:58] Keith, I wanted to jump off of that real fast here. I know you’re getting too
Keith Besherse: [00:18:02] violent. yeah, so
Jason Tucker: [00:18:07] like with that
Keith Besherse: [00:18:10] person,
Jason Tucker: [00:18:10] Yeah, but there has to be like a, a benefit to, to working the generational gap as well with this, I’d imagine that if you were to like each time different generation at each different age class of people would probably respond to a piece of paper coming in the mail differently.
Than someone who’s just going to receive email. I mean, I get people who receive email at work. I work at a church. We work with a lot of people in a nonprofit space and local communities and all that sort of thing. And I have people that are at my church who think that email is an official business and every single email needs to be responded to.
And I, I, I, I don’t just beg to differ, but I. I don’t understand why. And why do you think this is like half of this stuff is junk? Just throw it away. Like you don’t have to respond to every single thing, but when you receive a physical thing, the older folks may look at this and say, I, you know, this is something I need to work with.
A younger person may receive their first letter in the mail and go, Oh, what should I do with this? So, could you talk about like the, the, you know, working that w working that angle of maybe a, the age gap or, or different ages can kind of work through these a different way kind of works with some, you know, like how, how would you approach that, or how do your, customers approach that?
Keith Besherse: [00:19:37] Yeah. Yeah. Certainly there is a, a difference. I’m not sure that the pendulum is starting to swing back the other way on this particular topic yet. on some of the things that, that I think happened in our are happening in our society. I have an opinion that, that, that there’s a pendulum swing, in how people interact with each other.
and a less, acceptance of, of hierarchy and formality. I think kind of our generation, we got this, Hey, these digital tools are great. Let’s use them. And I think there’s a pendulum swing back to, Hey, I’d rather have real relationships and get real contact with people. And I think that print actually ties to that.
I’m not sure I have any even anecdotal let alone. Statistical experience that says, I don’t know, Jason, I think your, your statement about authenticity really is really insightful. I think, it’s, there’s there yet, maybe a learning curve when somebody reads, when somebody becomes a, like a moves out of their parents’ home and in their own space.
there’s always that, what do I do with this? And it’s been called junk mail in their life and they answer, they think of it that way. but, but in everything, there’s a little bit of a, a experiential curve of, Oh, wait, this is actually addressed to me. Maybe I do need to, to at least consider what it says.
so I don’t know, that’s it, that’s an interesting,
Bridget Willard: [00:21:03] I mean we believe, we believe things that are written. I mean, it’s, it’s kind of in our DNA
and you touch it. It has your name on it.
Keith Besherse: [00:21:18] We have a yeah. Yeah. And, and you immediately say, Oh, that is to me. Now I don’t necessarily, I’m not necessarily going to take any action, but I ha I, my brain tells me that I’m obligated to respond to it at some point with fashion, but I don’t know, Jason, maybe it may be for a, somebody who was say 20 or 30 years younger than me, rather than 10 or 15.
Maybe that would make a difference. That’s an interesting question,
Bridget Willard: [00:21:50] but it kind of goes to the psychology of our
Keith Besherse: [00:21:53] identity.
Bridget Willard: [00:21:55] You know, and from the book, making friends and influencing people by, Carnegie that Dale Carnegie or Carnegie, I don’t know. Like you watch Ken burns is all Carnegie Carnegie.
Like your, your name is the most important thing. The most important sound to you as a person is your name. And that’s why people get so upset when they mispronounced or misspelled. You don’t even know how many times my name is misspelled. It. Even Willard. People are trying to put extra eyes in there, like Willie ARD and Bridget Scott, all kinds of teas and everything.
Jason Tucker: [00:22:32] I started the show nod and saying his last name just goes to show ya.
Bridget Willard: [00:22:38] And so we, and so we’ve gotten to a place where we’re reading and reading and reading, but we’re not interacting. And the print, it gives us an opportunity to interact.
Keith Besherse: [00:22:54] right, right.
Yeah. So, yeah, the print, the print has a H again, Bridget used the word that textile moment and, it impacts us, this really tells us that this is a substantive message. For you just when you’re eat, even when you’re reading an ebook and you’re in, you’re scrolling, the content is literally the same.
but it just impacts your brain a little bit differently. so, so from a marketing perspective, the question is how do you, how do you leverage both? The, the print pieces is a slower cycle. The digital is all is all very much here. Now. Let’s go. Let’s go. Let’s go. and if you don’t hit that person in the right.
30 minute window. They’re not even going to see your message cause it’s going to scroll on by, on Twitter. Cause everybody’s blowing up Twitter with all the political stuff and I’m talking to the political to the, to the Twitter person in the room. So I, you know, I know, you know, the platform has strengths and weaknesses.
Yeah. The print piece has strengths and weaknesses. Telemarketing, somebody picking up the phone and power dialing until they get somebody on the phone on the line still has a place in the marketing world. The question is, is your message. One. That’s going to get somebody to stay on the phone once you get through.
Bridget Willard: [00:24:25] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we’ve been talking about landing pages
Keith Besherse: [00:24:31] or marketing strategy.
Bridget Willard: [00:24:32] Yeah. So we’ve been talking about landing pages a lot lately, Keith, and I’m like how the domain looks and stuff like that and buying a certain domain. So have you seen, clients use, print media to reinforce their landing pages, their landing pages, or, I mean, I’m thinking maybe real estate, right?
Keith Besherse: [00:24:56] Absolutely. Yeah.
Especially, that’s a good one because especially a real estate person who isn’t agent of an, of a brokerage, you know, they’re trying to brand themselves as an individual agent with a local market, and yet they’re carrying a national branding. So this is a really interesting challenge. Interesting conundrum of how do you get people’s minds to correlate?
Keller Williams or, I just, I almost had a financial advisor, a financial brand, W good grief conversation yesterday anyway, you know, this national brands and yet, how do you get people to see? Yeah, I know that brand, but my agent is so and so who happens to work for that brand who is branded that, but, but they have their own unique brand.
so yes, I’ll talk about it. Talk about the plant. One of the things that, that we’re doing as the lead leader is the mailing piece. Instead of being a standalone component, it’s at, what’s actually important is that ma the address. So instead of being about the mailing piece, it’s about the address.
Oh, what we can do in the. As we approached the second quarter of the 21st century is we can correlate physical address, email address, social media accounts to about 40% accuracy before we even start, let alone, once we start and. The phone number that lives at that address.
Wow. So it’s not about the mail piece. It’s not about the email it’s not sent to the female dress. It’s not about the mail piece, not about the email address. It’s not about the social media account. It’s not about the phone number. Except that it, or, sorry, it’s not about the mail piece. It’s not about the email.
It’s not about the social media posts. It’s not about the text message. It’s about the fact that we have one data point that says, I know that Keith lives at this address with this phone number or maybe two phone numbers, and he’s on these three social media platforms with these three accounts. Now, let me take and put his, put his method, my message in front of him repeatedly so that he can get to that seven to 12 touches.
That takes two, one creating a brand impression, let alone a buying decision. In the information age. and so that, that’s where the power that’s where the correlation comes is. It’s not about the piece. It’s about the message that all those things, all those pieces are consistently carrying. And it’s engaged the target.
The audience that we have said in our marketing strategy is who will want to talk to you. So if it’s that real estate agent it’s, these are the homeowners in my community who I want to talk to. They’re defined this way, or these are the renters in my community. And, and I can, I know they have enough disposable income that they could take out a mortgage, but they’re afraid or they’re whatever.
How do I address that issue? So they didn’t see me as the person that can get them out of a rental and into an ownership of a property. That’s where the messaging comes in and the fact that we can touch them in every single channel where they’re looking. And as soon as now you talked about the landing page, as soon as they respond to any of those messages, we take them not to the sky.
We take them to a dedicated landing page based off this particular marketing campaign. And we say, are you interested? And they have they opt in. They say, yeah, tell me just a little bit more. Well, now we’re correlating. We’re validating all of the data we think we already have, and we’ve got a warm lead.
Bridget Willard: [00:29:28] Yeah. So the landing page is making validating
Keith Besherse: [00:29:34] yeah. Onto my client and say,
so the landing page validates all the, all the data points that we think we had. And helps us find the other two or three social media accounts that they, they didn’t tell us about. We haven’t figured out yet. And I turned around to the client and say, this person was on your original mailing list. They are a warm lead.
You need to call them time now because we validated this. Person’s interested in who we are in our message that we’re trying to share. And you’re right. It’s about the landing page. The landing page is where we do the validation.
Bridget Willard: [00:30:12] See, I was thinking that Jason, because we kept doing landing pages and then I keep seeing key stuff with the lead leader, talking about print and digital, and I’m like, there’s gotta be some gold there and we just, right.
Keith Besherse: [00:30:26] Right.
Bridget Willard: [00:30:26] And
Jason Tucker: [00:30:29] for those landing pages are important, especially if you’re, if you’re trying to get them to go from a medium, that is not digital. Be it spoken word, be it a podcast like we have, we have to, we have to convey to you to go to a specific website via me actually saying it. Where if it’s written on a piece of paper, I have to look at that piece of paper and then type in the address.
But that’s your opportunity to, if you really trying to figure out, did this person actually click on this thing or did this person actually come from a particular medium? That you may want to have like a custom web address for that, or a custom, shortly link or a specific domain name for it, or, you know, a code that the person’s going to have to type into.
there’s all sorts of ways of kind of tracking that part of it, but that whole divide, that holes switching over from one medium to the next. Yeah. I mean, you gotta come up with some special way to do it. There’s a UTM codes. You can stick on there. That’s gonna, that’s going to talk to you that part of
Bridget Willard: [00:31:32] it kind of stupid, like just based upon all this information.
So far 30 minutes in it’d be foolish is a better word to send people just to Bridget willard.com, you know, or remax.com or, you know, whatever insert. H and R block.com, whatever. You never just send them to your generic plain
Keith Besherse: [00:31:59] website. Yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:32:00] In a print campaign.
Keith Besherse: [00:32:02] Yeah. That’s a perfect one. Wow.
Bridget Willard: [00:32:08] my brain is going, dude,
Keith Besherse: [00:32:09] dude, dude
could because that’s yeah. Cool. Bridget, your, your point is exactly right, because that is the challenge that the print marketers had in the sixties, seventies, eighties, they knew people were walking into the store based off of having, and they knew, so they knew which community they hit the hit with that mail piece.
And they knew people were walking into the store. They just didn’t know if people will walk. They could see the spikes.
Bridget Willard: [00:32:47] Yeah.
Keith Besherse: [00:32:47] So they know people are walking into the storefront based on the timing of when that mail piece hit their mailbox.
Bridget Willard: [00:32:53] Well, and retail could do it with the coupon.
Keith Besherse: [00:32:55] They’re getting that one to 2% response rate.
Yeah. In the digital age, telling people go to your homepage. Right. Right. And then, so that’s why you start trying to refine it down by giving a discount code or giving a coupon. but Bridget, your, your point you just made was exactly right. If you tell people that you give them a QR code and a QR code takes them to your homepage.
Well, they’ve walked in your storefront. On the other hand, if you give them a QR code or, or, or a custom URL, it goes to a distinct landing page, you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt. So you validated, I was engaging this audience with this message. And in fact, that message is resonating. They are going to, they’re showing up on this landing page and I’m tracking now I’m tracking behavior on that landing page.
Now I know now I actually know things. Yeah. Wow. Instead of speculating,
Bridget Willard: [00:33:58] right trust, but verify
Keith Besherse: [00:34:09] in the cap way. We said coordinate, anticipate, verify.
Bridget Willard: [00:34:12] There you go. It sounds like a marketing strategy to me,
Jason Tucker: [00:34:18] right? Exactly. So what’s the first step for someone? What, what should they be doing if they want, if they’ve been doing all digital and now they want to start really getting into the physical side of it.
What’s their first step who who’s, who, who should they be talking to and how should they be approaching
Keith Besherse: [00:34:37] it?
yeah. they really, one of the really quick, quick question should be. To their designer to say, do you have a history of policing print? Okay. Because so many of the, of the, of the young designers have never designed for print. and they’re one, there’s some color limitations too. there just some parameter parameter specific things that you just have to consider when you’re designing for print, that you, when you see it on a screen, it’s what you see, what you see is what you get.
And it’s going to be that way, when you put it in front of the audience. so part of it is, is that I think that if you, when you ask that question, what’s the first question. Have you designed for a print and do you have a printer that you work with locally or, or. Should I go shop for my own printer.
Because if they have a printer that they already use, that’s probably, that’s probably the printer that, that if you’re already using them as your designers and especially if you do and there, they end at your, and your copywriter are already working together, then if they have a printer that they share, then that’s who
Jason Tucker: [00:35:52] it’s pixels versus pipe.
Bridget Willard: [00:35:58] Yeah. And bleed,
Keith Besherse: [00:36:00] sorry, again,
Jason Tucker: [00:36:01] the pixels versus PICA is I’m just, you know, like there there’s, there’s different measurements for, you know, whether it’s print or whether it’s not, you know, or, or inches versus pixels or whatever, whatever, you know, in terms of measurement, it is.
Bridget Willard: [00:36:13] Yeah. For sure. For sure. Wow. So like, if we, if we like turn this conversation,
Keith Besherse: [00:36:23] if like, if we, yeah.
Bridget Willard: [00:36:25] Yeah. So if we take this and put it into a word camp situation, which one day we might have word camps again. Right. Jason, I don’t know. like it would be, it would be really good to have that print, like. You know, so like kids stuff, they did these books, right. Speed up your WordPress site and everything.
And I got it from Montreal, but they don’t know that. so, like you, yeah. Put a sticker on there and say, here’s your code or something to see where people were actually getting your print because they did spend the money. To print this book, you know that, so the thing is, it’s like, if we’re going to do that, I, now I know why people put their slides slash whatever.
I was like, why don’t you do that? Just put them on a SlideShare, your weirdo. And now I’m like, Oh, that’s because it’s their landing page.
So, like what would you say, Jason? Like,
Keith Besherse: [00:37:27] so. It’s not your homepage,
Bridget Willard: [00:37:31] right? Not your homepage. I’m just so used to saying Bridget willard.com. Bridget willard.com. Bridget willard.com. I got just like a doll that you pull the string out. There’s a snake in my boot. So
Keith Besherse: [00:37:47] you can have read the
Jason Tucker: [00:37:48] card.com and it could be your, your, your, your business card, if you want to do
Bridget Willard: [00:37:53] or.
Oh Bridget dot
Keith Besherse: [00:37:56] card,
Bridget Willard: [00:38:00] then I could change my last name and get married or something, Pat. Yeah. So, wow, Keith, this is been like my, I mean, Jason, right? You’re going away a little bit.
Jason Tucker: [00:38:13] Yeah, no, this is good stuff.
Bridget Willard: [00:38:16] Yeah. So like there, there, this whole thing of, that’s why I was like, Oh, print isn’t dead print without coordinating with digital’s dead.
Right. So that’s the whole problem is that you don’t do it in the context. I mean, even my client, who’s a realtor in Arizona. They send me these, their little newsletter. I get, I get the email version of it, but I still get the print one because people put these things on their refrigerators and that’s what says Bridget Willard, my address and stuff on it, you know?
And that’s. I mean, that’s what they’re doing. So, I mean, I guess it makes sense in, you know, people still use door hangers, right?
Keith Besherse: [00:38:58] Yeah, they do.
Jason Tucker: [00:39:01] Yeah, they do. Well, Hey, you want to, you want to transition into our tour tip? You should probably do that. I will, I will let you know that, we don’t have official sponsor for this episode of, towards it from the teller towards the week.
But I do want to let you know about a new show that we have coming out on watercolors network, which is called the query. the query is, think of what WP water coolers, a previous show, which was called, the BB Blab, which was what the show is. But dummy blabs origin started as, a question and answer show.
the query on the other hand is, is very much so a question, answer show, Jason Cosper, who’s one of the co-hosts on WP. Watercooler is starting this show and his, his idea and premise behind it is that he wants to help the folks that are trying to figure out how to use WordPress. How do you use technology?
How do you use all these things to kind of make it all work together? And what he’s doing is he’s posing the question, allowing you to query him. To ask him, what is the, you know, what is it that you, you know, you’re having issues with and he’ll be able to help you out. So if you go to DP, water, Corp com slash the query,
Keith Besherse: [00:40:07] that’d be a landing page.
Jason Tucker: [00:40:08] the way, Bridget, you would go on to that page and scroll down about halfway down the page. There’s three options that you can choose from. The first one is you can just leave a normal email, just send an email through a form and answer your, ask your question that way. the second way is that, you could, submit it via a, hashtag on Twitter.
And the third way is, and this is kind of an interesting one, but you can actually leave it as a voicemail so you can click a link on there. It loads up, you can even be on your phone and they’ll do it. And you can leave a voicemail for him. I’m asking him a question. it is limited to a certain number of minutes or seconds.
Thank goodness. Or you’d have somebody trying to tell you their whole life story. Like I am right now with this pitch, but the idea is that you’ve heard of that. And, he’ll answer your question. So you’ll do a show. We’ll cook, we’ll put all these things together and we’ll actually answer all of those questions that are coming in.
So. But for you to slash the query and knowing Jason Cosper, he’ll probably have some very interesting domain name that we’ll use to redirect to it. So it’d be like, I don’t know, like the query.pizza or something like that. So, but, but feel free to go take a look at that. We really appreciate it. And that is the query.
And you can find that day you can work on our home slash like queries. All right, Georgia tip of the week. So if you’re not familiar with Warren tip of the week and we go around the room real quick and, we kind of present, each word of the week. Something that we enjoy, something that, that we’ve liked.
It could be anything. It’d be a piece of paper. You have book, it could be, anything. So, Bridget, what do you want to start us off? What do you got?
Bridget Willard: [00:41:39] Okay, so I’ve been reading a lot more lately, books, paper, books, It’s weird. Like now that I had LASIK, it just so comfortable for me to read and, I just, I’m almost finished with the mermaid chair and it’s so good.
It’s like one of the first fiction books I’ve read since I don’t even know how long, but, I’m also reading the second to one of the tools I’ve said before a Mark Manson. Oscar, you know, our friend, Oscar, not a grouch. He says this Kyle like Buddhism light for Westerners, because that that’s the thing is like, I read a lot of nonfiction and it just, but the thing is.
Yeah, I could read on Kindle or have Kindle read to me, but it’s not the same. We are on our computers all the time. And now even our meetups are virtual and I’m just so sick of being on the computer. I never thought it would be that person. So just, you know, laying down on my couch and reading and, or sitting in my chair and reading.
Closing the laptop. Forget about it. Yeah, you could do it on Kindle, but I don’t want to look at a machine anymore. Okay. So like my tip isn’t specifically this book, but, although I just, I just started and it’s pretty good. but the take a break from, you know, cause we’re all reading. We read the internet all the time, all day long, go read something that’s made out of paper.
That’s my tip.
Jason Tucker: [00:43:19] Keith. What about you? What, what do you, what do you got to present for us today?
Keith Besherse: [00:43:26] Okay, well, is it okay if I just do shameless self promotion? Yeah, of course she can. So, so my, my, this is a good thing. so that, that. ability to correlate the data associated with who that person, where that person listens their physical address or email address. That is the big data that all the corporations are using to target all of us.
What the lead leader does is takes that big data concept and says. I can provide that same capability to the small local community, local business, or local or local nonprofit who is going out and trying to serve a local community. so that’s, that’s what I’m bringing to the table.
Bridget Willard: [00:44:20] No, that’s awesome.
Keith Besherse: [00:44:22] Very cool. Fair enough. Yeah, no,
Jason Tucker: [00:44:26] I think it’s great. I, I love the idea. I love the, the connection between, both digital as well as print. I think that, I think that, that novelty that I was talking about with print, especially with the younger folks, might actually be, the piece that, That brings more of that, that, that tangible physical, I’m touching a piece of paper type of thing.
you know, it’s like my daughter, she wanted to go, she wanted a record player for Christmas one year and, and I was like, why you can just download any song you want. And she goes, but I get to hold it. And I was like, Oh, wow. I didn’t even think about
Keith Besherse: [00:45:01] that. I know
Bridget Willard: [00:45:03] there’s
Jason Tucker: [00:45:03] like, there’s a, there’s a connection there when it’s a physical thing versus just like
Keith Besherse: [00:45:07] the next
Bridget Willard: [00:45:08] track.
You know what, though, just as a tiny segue, it’s also, the album was, was created as a whole, that the artist, the producer created it as a one experience for you to listen, start to finish. Like when I did my album, it was, the songs were specifically chosen to go together in a certain order. And like, when I do my.
6:00 PM. Sunday bath with Radiohead. And I listened to that whole okay. Computer like that. We don’t do that anymore. We don’t do anything in a context. We just pick and choose what we like. And I bet just as enjoying. Yeah, it was those albums as the whole art
Keith Besherse: [00:45:54] piece
Bridget Willard: [00:45:57] to her. We need to get her on the show.
Jason Tucker: [00:45:59] Oh, no, I’m scared.
Bridget Willard: [00:46:05] Jason.
Jason Tucker: [00:46:07] so it’s, it’s funny. I, I’m not trying to set this up. I, I’m not trying, this is not a bit, I’m not trying to set this up or anything like that. I don’t know if the two of you can see what’s going to be on the screen yet, but, okay, good. So, My mother model had to go to the, to the doctor just for a routine checkup.
Right. And she forgot her, her medical card and she, she gets there and she goes through all this stuff and, and, you know, just, and forget some medical card. So I had to go, they asked me if I could fax them. The medical card. And I was like, Oh my, I mean, I’m old enough to understand what factors are and I understand why they existed at some point, but I don’t know, understand why they still exist.
And, and I, I definitely know that they are not secure in any way, shape or form, and you can listen, literally listened to a fax and then play it back to another fax machine for that to reconstruct the thing like HIPAA compliance. I don’t, I, I really don’t understand, like I have to build entire server rooms dedicated to HIPAA, but a fax machine that’s just plugged into a wall is.
Secure. So anyhow, I had to go download a thing called a snap fax. Now there’s a whole bunch like literally there’s a zillion of these different solutions that are out there to be able to send out faxes. I’m not saying that this one in particular was like the best one, but what I am saying is if you need to take a physical thing and digitally send it to them via a transmission system known as a fax.
But you can’t take a picture of it and just email it to them, which would be, it would have been like way more secure, but Oh no, I’m sending this as a effect. So if you need a fact, it supports all the things. If you want to download it for the iPhone or for Android, or even on a Mac, or if you have a Microsoft device, she can do that as well.
And it’s dead simple. You take a picture of it. It puts a little green thing around it. You can kind of move all the pieces around on the corners to cut and get it to where it needs to be. I have a standing program that does that. No joke. I have a scanner. I don’t think I’ve ever used the scanner. I just like pull out my phone, take a picture of it.
People hang stuff at work, your picture of it. I just don’t need your physical thing. Like I, I thank you for giving me the physical thing for half a second, but I just need to like capture it for half
Keith Besherse: [00:48:22] a minute.
Jason Tucker: [00:48:23] And I know it’s funny considering we’re talking about like this stuff on a show where we’re talking about paper and how paper is such an important piece, but.
I needed to send a piece of paper from one side of the street of the city, to the other side of the city. So you take this thing, you put the phone number in it, and then you put your message in there and you send it. I think I spent $3 to get a cup. A couple of times credits I’m on the system. But, once you do that, you hit the button, it sends it and you’re good to go.
I’d imagine there’s probably a way of receiving effects, but it was, it was novel enough that I had to send a fax. So I know I’m probably not going to receive one as well, but, but yeah, so that, that’s how I kind of went about it. it supports all these different countries and all these different places that you could send it.
But like I said, I think I spent $4 in total to essentially not have to drive to the
Keith Besherse: [00:49:12] other side of town to
Jason Tucker: [00:49:13] be able to, to drop off that,
Keith Besherse: [00:49:14] that you know, that.
Bridget Willard: [00:49:17] I here’s the thing, Jason. So my aunts, 75 ish are now having to deal with my grandmother’s
Jason Tucker: [00:49:27] estate. Oh boy.
Bridget Willard: [00:49:30] And go through all the legal system and the courts aren’t open.
So they have everything digital with Kindle machines. They don’t. So like I’m going to send snap fax to my aunt. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Like she’s so frustrated. She’s so frustrated. She’s not 47. How you find,
Jason Tucker: [00:50:01] so
Bridget Willard: [00:50:02] there was a purpose, I guess. Thanks
Keith Besherse: [00:50:04] for
Jason Tucker: [00:50:09] the idea of having to send off something like this, especially when it, when it, when it comes to we live in such a digital age that I could have, like, it took me longer to download the facts. Application or pay through, you know, Apple pay or whatever, like this whole thing, right. Where I could send it, it would have sent them an email, you know, the card, the card didn’t even have social security number on it or anything like that.
It just had like a. User identifiable ID. That’s only in their own system that doesn’t necessarily, I don’t know. It just, it was, it was such a thing, but it was funny that this happened right before Keith’s show because it was like, we just did all this and now it’s like, Oh, we just talked about this is essentially quit.
Even though like the only print part of it was I was taking a picture of something that was printed.
Bridget Willard: [00:51:03] It’s real when you had that crazy paper. I mean playing paper faxes shit.
Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for your time and being on the show, Keith, I can’t wait to type up all the notes. I’m in Ryan though on paper.
Jason Tucker: [00:51:27] Keith. Do you have any final words for us or, or, or observations based on what we’ve talked about? We have a couple minutes left here.
Keith Besherse: [00:51:33] It’s been fun.
Yeah. Yeah, no, Jason, I think you’re you’re you’re Oh my goodness. This is, this is just really weird. Dichotomy is, is, is maybe the perfect summary of we need, we want to touch the pieces. We have a utility. For having that thing, right. We also have this access through this digital medium, where we can touch people who are a long ways away.
So it’s how do you, how you have a shared experience where. I’m touching a thing, but I’m communicating that message. Right. And I have multiple ways I can do that. And, and that’s the power of the digital age is I can, I can do things that conceptually I wanted to do 20 or 50 years ago. Now I actually can do them.
but how do I make sure that I do them in a way that still has a human relational experience, within that context, within that platform.
Bridget Willard: [00:53:05] Right, right. So important. So how do people find
Keith Besherse: [00:53:09] you?
And I think my connection is slowing down a lot.
Okay, well, you had my, my homepage up, the lead leader.net, on that homepage, there’s a link to the under, under the, direct, direct mail integrated direct mail. Phrase, there’s an actual link to a landing page, which talks to what exactly we’ve been talking about today, about the integration of direct mail with a, with a holistic marketing campaign.
I, on, on the social media platforms, yeah, I’m either keep the sheers or I am the bulk debt marketing and tie me on, on Instagram and Twitter, as both guy marketing, LinkedIn Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, yeah. or Keith dot the lead [email protected] It’s easy to cool.
Bridget Willard: [00:54:13] I’ll definitely link to that in the show notes.
I can’t believe he did a thing. That’s it’s so prepared. I love it.
Jason Tucker: [00:54:25] Yeah, thank you very much Keith for being on the show today. We really, I appreciate it. I’m going to play our outro. So here we go.
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