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In this episode, Jason and Bridget are joined by Cory Miller for a discussion on creation versus identity.

As product creators, how do you separate your identity from your product? Why does it matter? When you sell your product, who are you? With all of the acquisitions that are happening now, this is an important factor in the WordPress ecosystem both financially and mentally

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The WPwatercooler network is sponsored by ServerPress makers of DesktopServer. Be sure to check them out at as well as PeepSo.

If you’re interested in sponsoring the 40 minute mark of this show, check out the details on our sponsor page. We offer episode by episode spoken ads, rather than large contracts. A show by you for you.

Product Acquisitions in WordPress

Pantheon recently bought Staging Pilot. Of course we know about Liquid Web buying iThemes and Genesis being bought by WPEngine. So, how does this affect product creators?

The hardest thing, though, was leaving the team, not the product. He’ll always be attached to the brand, but it’s really about the people.

“Some of my best friends in life were on [the iThemes] team.” Cory Miller

If it works for you, go for venture capital. But have some balance with your sweat and actual equity. It’s a big deal to be responsible for someone else’s paycheck.

“Always use somebody else’s money.” Cory Miller

How do you separate yourself from your creation?

Bridget set up the context of this discussion with a quote from the Game of Thrones co-writer.

“…I was very attached to the words I wrote, because I wrote them. It’s like a part of me. If I don’t like these, I don’t like me.” D.B. Weiss, Creative Brain on Netflix

Cory Miller says his startup was like a baby and for the first few years there were a lot of diaper changes. He brought it through infancy to kindergarten. He recognizes that it’s been a while since he felt those original growing pains.

“Up until now, I never saw myself as a creator… but Gosh the parallels are compelling.” Cory Miller

“When you build something whether it’s with your hands or your blood, sweat equity, …you do feel so woven into that.” Cory Miller

Build the life and the work you want.

The main question you, as a creator, need to ask yourself is this: how painful is it to do everything yourself? Or — how much joy do you have working alone. You can work alone. Build that life. But if you want to build a company, then you have to delegate and/or outsource.

We should not feel guilty for outsourcing tasks to others whether it’s housekeeping, development, marketing, or support.

How do you stop being a Micromanaging Creator?

Cory talks about Assembly Line leadership to get productivity. Throwing more people at problem isn’t more effective. If you care about people, they’ll care about you.

“When it comes to leadership, it’s one simple skill: care.” Cory Miller

In the creator mindset, it’s very hard to delegate, Cory says, because they are craftspeople at heart. And that is a tough situation when it comes to delegation.

Jason reminds us that having a branding guide is a good way to communicate the persona to others the way that Jen Miller and I do for our blogging and social media clients. They’re trusting us to represent them. The brand should always come first in a company — even over its creator. This allows people to be cross-trained, even in small companies, so the employees can go on vacation.

It needs to be psychologically safe in your organization for team members to make decisions with the values in mind. You need to be okay with that.  (Read Chapter 3 on Teams from this book. It’s worth it.)

“Do they feel safe to make a decision?” Cory Miller

Leaving a Team to A New Duck

How do you feel about handing over a team to a new duck to imprint upon? For Cory, he trusted Matt entirely. He knew his team would play their own songs. He is so proud that they can operate without him.

  • Be a leader through crisis and change.
  • Some people may choose to not continue.
  • Communicate the positives of the change.
  • Value the stories that you tell.

Being a healthy communicator is so important. Tell people what’s going on.

“In the absence of communication, people will make crap up.” Cory Miller

Advice to Growing WordPress Products

It is hard to go out on your own and start something new. It’s a tough struggle. Cory has a heart for entrepreneurs but realizes he’s far from the beginning.

  • Build a team that can succeed without you.
  • Be aware when your product has run its course.
  • Share the upward mobility options to the team.
  • Communicate your intention openly.
  • Values are communicated in stories.
  • Empower team members to make decisions.
  • Document your culture in a branding book.
  • Document your systems and processes.

“Curiosity, clean communication, circling back, and rumbling become part of the culture. Just like people, when organizations own their stories and take responsibility for their actions, they get to write the endings. When they deny their stories, people on the outside, like the media, take over the story’s authorship to write new narratives that could come to define the organization.” Brené Brown, Rising Strong 

Tool or Tip of the Week

This week’s Tool or Tip of the Week is brought to you by PeepSo. PeepSo is a super-light, free, social network plugin for WordPress that allows you to quickly and effortlessly add a social network or an online community right inside your WordPress site. Your Community. Your Way. Find out more at at

Bridget recommends WP Feedback which is an amazing tool for QAing a website and/or getting client feedback.

Jason doesn’t have a window in his office – such a bummer to be in the basement — but he also has several monitors. So he loves Multi Monitor Wallpaper that allows him to have one cohesive image.

Cory recommends Transitions:Making Sense Of Life’s Changes. He leaned on this quite a bit in the last few years.

Do you have any tools or tips we should know about?

We’d love to hear from you. What are your experiences with this subject?

Tell us in the comments below.

Become a Patron and support us on Patreon!

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hey what's up everyone this is Jason Tucker and this is WP watercoolers WP blab episode number 128 woo I'm super excited about this particular episode we're gonna be speaking with with corey miller in just a few minutes here but before we begin with all of that we're going to introduce ourselves bridgett tell us a little bit about yourself hey my name is Bridget Willard and I am a social media manager and marketing consultant for WordPress businesses and products and you can find out more approachable or calm awesome Bridget Bridget I'm Jason Tucker you find me over at Jason Tucker on twitter my website is Jason Tucker top blog I do this show as well as another show called WP blog which we found out I've been doing that since 2012 what the heck really it's crazy well a little bit of the October of 2012 and yeah I'm happy to be doing this show with you folks you can take a look at our particular oh my goodness you can this particular episode is sponsored by by peep so feel free to go take a look at peeps those information we'll be talking about that towards the end of the show and also desktop server makers of server press so server press makers a desktop server alright folks well it's um we've been rude enough I think we should begin Corey tell us about yourself hey thanks for having me on the show um it's it's be here and yes my name is Corey Miller and thinking as relates to the show I have been doing WordPress for I think 13 years now now currently I'm a WordPress blogger but I started a company called I themes in 2008 rain that for 11 years 2000 teens were acquired by a great hosting company licking web and just this year earlier this year I left to do start my next chapter in my professional career and at leader team so you can find me at Corey Miller 303 oh that's so funny I love those kinds of jokes so we were thinking about this subject because there have been so many acquisitions in a WordPress lately one of my clients staging pilot just got acquired by Pantheon of course we knew about I themes Genesis got eaten up by or acquired by WP engine etc etc WooCommerce was one of the major ones automatic is always gathering up WordPress places on the Monopoly board oh do we have we need to have a monopoly why don't we have WordPress awfully anyway so today I was watching the creative brain documentary on Netflix and the co-creator Game of Thrones just talking about something it was really applicable to this episode if you said if I as a writer if I write something and people don't like it that means they don't like me and this is the problem that creators have whether you're writing literature code or music we're always worried about what the other people think and so how do you separate yourself from your identity from your product from your creation the creator and the creation right so that's kind of a topic we thought you would do very well speaking at because clearly you have you built something it acquired you let them like grow like that and then you're like hey I'm gonna do my next thing like any responsible parent who lets their college kid actually leave and go to college I love it I love it so the question with you it is so true I mean the way the context for this whole show that you gave Bridget is been really fantastic because you know I never i probably up until now I hadn't thought of myself as a creator related to the business that I started and ran grew ultimately sold and then now left but gosh the parallels are very compelling the you know so often in business we refer to our startups our businesses as our baby and I've been guilty of that you know for the first couple of years it felt like it was in infancy pooping and peeing on me all the time you know midway through I felt like okay we're getting the baby to kindergarten we're graduating to adult supervision and you know the last six months it's been six months since I left I themes and when I say I themes what really has risen resonated with me or been the thing that I felt the most separation about is my team you know running the team the the business and the team for 11 years some of my best friends in life are part of that team and to say at some point after a very long stretch I told you guys in the pre-show that I think it was the longest job job I've ever had 11 years before that I was at about every two years I switched jobs but uh I'd tell you above the brand I think I love the random-looking to be attached to it but it really is the people and the fact that we spend so much time at work is what I mean and we've developed these deep relationships and I really that was an emphasis for me is that really good relationships with the people I work with and then to say goodbye that's been the biggest biggest disconnect in fillings that you kind of ask the question that's what you would say because you came to work Orange County 2014-15 ish somewhere in that range I talked about how you hire people and if you can't if you can't see them coming to your family dinner that was a no deal am I remembering this correctly yeah okay because it because building that company culture is so important and even Gary Vaynerchuk with vaynermedia that has over 800 employees now he does all the hiring for that reason because you can train the talent you know but you but that personality is so important and how how does it I mean I I kind of feel like I know the answer to this question but how does it feel to you seeing them with another duck you know leave him around Margret you're not the front duck anymore they're kind of imprinting on somebody else yeah thankfully that duck is the dock that walked with me for a long time in the business his name is Matt Danner he's now the general general manager GM for I things I just talked to him earlier this week and I gotta tell you it's a source of pride probably about a month after I left there's this okay they don't really miss me that much feeling being honest with you oh my goodness but to see Matt and the team do and so incredibly well after I had left and and I didn't want to ever cast any type of a shadow so I tried to really pull pull away and let them kind of play up play their own songs and they're playing a different song which I'm you know I knew that would be a the case and that's it's a good thing for me and I think it's creators like you set the stage Bridgette could potentially feel a little like oh man they're not playing my song absolutely there was a part of my my journey in this whole thing but the overwhelming part was being very honest these print these people are some of the best people I've ever met in my life I'm I'm really proud that they're able to operate very successfully without me yeah I I can really we did that's how we did our Sunday school we just trained the teachers let them do whatever they wanted I mean not whatever but like within reasonable parameters but even most recently I saw yesterday Jason that Yvette and Siobhan two of the people I recruited for the marketing team like contributor day yesterday at work is awesome but I think if somebody took a little songs from my CD and totally ruined it I have a different feeling so like I mean like that's potential right so clearly you made good choices when you were building a team Cory but like what would you say to the person who like kind of is in the mid-range to have like a significant a number of active installs they're kind of on that edge and wait maybe they should take some venture capital or mortgage their house to grow a little bit of a support like what would you say to that person like right there on that kind of how much of me needs to be really involved in this um as far as taking money my premises always use somebody else's money you know that I've kind of felt that way for a long time you somebody else's money to have fun and you really meaningful work in the world you know if somebody's on tinkering the blankets this knit this this chapter that I'm going through now in my professional career it's till in each chapter there I've written a couple chapters in the past now it's completely new really has brought me back to gosh how incredibly hard it is to go out on your own to start something new to try to get a snowball you know kind of bunched up in your hands then kind of push it try to get more snow and oh man am i pushing uphill as I try to get the snowball um that's really really tough and I have such a big heart for entrepreneurs because I am one I've been there before the heartache the heartburn the doubt you know I'd kind of not to say my ride was easy at all it was always up and down but I kind of gotten so distant from my early years and I themes that forgot how incredibly tough and doubt you know the insecure insecurities the doubt that crept in it's it's a tough sport and so I always love to encourage entrepreneurs so for that entrepreneur I'd say one if it works for you you take somebody else's mind you see everybody but who is if this is something you know your passions you're interested in you see impact just the course keep you going until it doesn't work anymore but I would that's probably words I'd want to hear right now to you is just like it's a hill battle just you know make sure it's connecting to what you want to do in life but and you're doing great keep going that's cool that's cool it's like that weird Shark Tank question that they that they have where they're like so how much money do you have in this particular business and then it's not even like the equity part it's not the percentage part it's not that so she's like how much of money did you put into this and how much did you end up with and so you know and when there are super impressed when they throw $10 into it and then they make it into ten million dollars but then they're like what the heck you spent five million dollars on this product and evilly sells seven of them okay obviously you didn't do market research obviously so I think there's that weird balance that you have to kind of have to figure out what's what I mean I I myself haven't started a business and then turn around and sold it I haven't done and you haven't gone through that journey yet but it's fun to watch especially like a shark tank type thing or even when you're sitting there listening to other entrepreneurs kind of explain where they are and how they went through all those trials and tribulations and stuff what what have you seen and you know in your you know in your friends and then the people that you work with how they've kind of gone through those things of either acquisitions or either acquiring or being acquired like what have you seen in that that you're able to speak on a little bit so I had two friends here in Oklahoma City that actually sold their eggs didn't sold and exited their businesses before me and very very different to mine and I saw them walk through the process of exiting something they had helped start that was a part of their identity kind of as Bridgette laid out and so I had some prep preparation having seen their lives or what what their journeys were excuse me you know selling something that does feel very like a part of you that you're giving away to somebody else and all sudden they rip it out you feel like oh what's going on so I had that those two experiences before I started my themes and then anti themes we did several acquisitions they didn't look exactly like ours but acquisitions during our tenure so I've been around it from both sides being acquired and selling I will tell you that the two friends of mine that went through and they get to walk with them through their journey I thought okay I'm prepared I've seen all the you know potential pitfalls and the downs particularly the downs in the journey and it's still still it's it's it's been a it's been a tough journey because I think like both put I'm so glad for you to put it this concept this theme out there for discussion because when you build something whether it's with your hands or your blood sweat sweat equity over the amount of time at least I did and my friends that I've seen gosh you do feel so woven into that that and then it's like okay and knowing like we just said how hard it is to kind of start over it's a very it's a very type of thing it's something entrepreneurs I think are very have this these type moments particularly with if it's successful and then having an exit to but I mean even getting this business off the ground in succeeding having some measure of financial success is rare you know I mean it's not it's not the statistic and so you know I talk about quite a bit that you know my parents don't really understand didn't really understand one they don't they don't know what I do they thought I probably did IT ended up grades for Windows 95 at something but the other thing is to start a business and to be responsible for somebody else's paycheck didn't it's a foreign concept so it's a very unique life that we live as creators as entrepreneurs it's a very awesome one though I mean the highs are equally you know if the lows are really low the highs are there to you I don't know if I actually answered your question Jason but I think you did a good job there I you know I've worked for companies that have been acquired and I've seen it where were where the you know the the stakeholders will come in and say hey just let you know here's what's going on here's how we're going to approach this I don't want anybody to leave but I understand if you do like that whole kind of thing like how is that a like how was that approached how do you how do you manage that because I mean to me whenever I thought about I things I thought about you like I thought about you as the company to be perfectly honest I don't know how many people were on your team I know that there were people that were on your team but I don't know if there was a hundred I don't know if there was ten but that I whenever I thought of i-beams always thought of you but that was you and your brand so yeah how did you approach them as a team and just been like hey here's what's here's what's gonna happen so you know if I like it back about my career at ithemes the team and everything one of the emphasis that we had looking back now this is kind of apparent to me is that we manage change and cross this over the years in various forms and something I felt some amount of pride for is being able to lead our team through changing crises the biggest one of course well crisis was another thing but change was you know being acquired worn out and saying hey guys we've sold the business and that that was huge obviously it wasn't you know the decision was it came to overnight and some people chose not to continue which was not really shocking but overall we tried to say as we did with every change is we care about you we've been thinking about you in this process but here are the positives for this and you know no one including myself by the way likes the word change it's a dirty word should be a four-letter word because the way most humans ladies myself react exactly that change was big and we knew that and so again having that with me and some key long-term time team members with us to be able to say here here are the reasons why this work look at the the situation we're in the marketplace you know most of the managed hosting companies in fact most of the any kind of hosting companies has some kind of backup a part of the platform and we're like you know backup buddy has been our big star for a long time practically so - but but all about yeah thank you we we kind of saw the writing on the wall going okay you know we get it we're a utility utility feature set for the most part backup security maintenance and at some point the hosting companies just logic looking at strategically down the road they're gonna they're gonna start aiming at all those areas and so we saw you know GoDaddy purchase Minnesota BP I'll let to say that's what one part we laid out is look at here's the table we've been a bootstrap company very scrappy for a long time but there's a lot of money a lot of players in place now aiming at us the second was going okay and hey and he kind of upward mobility in the in the company Matt or I head leave that was our you know organization structure my way about 25 people when we were acquired okay it was like okay well you know if you want career you know to do something different one of us have to leave now now we're joining forces with liquid web who had a 600 people and there's mobility within the company yeah the third was going okay look if there's one metric that that we know why liquid web is a good partner is the Net Promoter Score he goes from there with NPS yeah wobbles you know Apple and Costco we're like okay they are driven by this one metric we we love our team we love our customers and we know we have to have really good team to serve our customers if anything this is a good player because they obsess over NPS and serving the customer this bodes well for everybody and knowing there was a vision in connection with the executive team who are fantastic the leadership team at web fantastic very Midwestern values kind of people and where we're located and so all that to say hey guys this is why we feel like this is a really good deal for all of us not just me as an owner but all of us well I like that you had intention and that you communicated your intention because I've been on the backwards side on the other side back in my construction days were the company I was working for was slowly bought out by the Sun or something like that and then slowly as the parents influence dies the Sun influence grows and your pay sort of stagnates and bonuses sort of disappear and it's just like the Frog and the pot where all of a sudden you're like what in the world I have not had a raise in nine years of magic you don't even realize it till you know like it till it's like so obvious the culture was just slowly disintegrating you know and so like a lot of times in the WordPress space I've seen this like just in me being around heavily like reading Twitter or going to work at the last five years or whatever it's been four years it I've seen like the t-shirts go away mortgages kids divorces acquisitions like the community itself is growing up there's a lot of times and Matt Mullenweg talked about this in the state of the word in 20 whatever 15 I think when he said you really shouldn't be a one-person shop Jason Lemieux from Post Matic asked that question what about the one person shops and he's like you shouldn't be that like we didn't know at the time he was thinking Gutenberg and that was gonna be like you know every two weeks for having a new update or something so I mean that's reality right and then you get good work all of a sudden all the theme companies are selling out because it's like I would because I wouldn't want to maintain that beast but aside from that obvious like seeing the direction what about you just have a product you just have this awesome product you build it it's great but now you're growing so in order to grow you have to delegate some of that branding and you'd have to like trust a team without you touching everything how do you how do you address the micromanaging creator in the WordPress space so that he can grow he or she or they can grow okay I want to answer your actual question but you're talking rigid I was thinking of a couple things number one is it still baffles me and it shouldn't but it still baffles me that there are companies and organizations that think that they can treat people like a machine cogs in the wheel assembly line leadership is what it's called similar line leadership where you're a machine you're cog in the system and we're gonna use these robotic measures and you know robotic tactics to get more productivity out of you and it doesn't work so okay let's throw more people at it that's our solution when it comes down to leadership is a simple one simple skill care haha that's just crazy talk right I'm such a heretic and I'm okay with that novel concept novel concept rocket science like science leadership package that 100 steps to you know create a culture where people love to come work give their best you know I didn't make that in a row it sounds easy for humans one put them in a position where they can do best so I wanted to rant on that and I'm sorry Bridget but I had to rain on that first dude Brandt ran away that's why you're the guest I'll try to get to your actual question the second is I will tell you this this by the way the first concept I just mentioned the whole care thing is not just organizations but it's also open source communities if you care for people they'll care about what you're doing and YouTube it's a very simple concept but it it does go along you know families organizational business structures and open source communities by the way ok the second is in the absence of communication and this is a PG show so I'll say people will make crap up in the absence of very good communication and when I say good it's just telling people here's what's kind of going on keeping people in the loop humans will make it up our brains are wired to go into the fear state and to make things up so I was trying to think back what we were relating that to but just simple good communication here's what's going on alleviates a lot of fear because in the absence of that we will make it okay getting to your question I think your question was how do you go from one person shop to building something that can exist or run you can actually take a vacation I think is the question yeah yeah how could you like you're not the only the buck doesn't stop at your your slack channel yeah you know I think as entrepreneurs by the way and so entrepreneurs can kind of be labeled as craft craftspeople craftsmen impress women at some point like we know how to do HTML and CSS and this our craft and we get such pride to film it from that and that's a different brand of entrepreneurship which is totally fun I happen to be not that person I'm not very good at very lot of things specifically the web technology we're talking about and I think it's hard when you are a craftsperson that you find such great pride and love and you kind of take the box of satisfaction with doing something in the in the craft like coding design related to this to technology and that's very hard I've seen for people to give up when you have that kind of craft because it's very personal to you in this creator yeah yeah in this creator of mindset it's very hard to delegate and I'm saying some of my best friends really struggle with that because they're craftspeople at heart like they love lining pixels and making sure the code is perfectly you know Jason shaking his head because get that and there's great joy in satisfaction from that and I think that makes it harder to delegate that task when you go god this is my craft this is my love this is if it's a pixel off its gonna keep me up at night it's a challenge ya know you don't see me outsourcing I'm not gonna let me play tweet for me crazy well Bridgette we've talked about this in that in that when you when you're someone who like both you and Jim Miller both do this where you be you become the voice of the cut of your clients persona you take on that persona and you start writing with it and stuff and one of the one of the questions you asked for you earlier was like you go from being like the you're not only corey miller but you were also i things like you whether you were the one tweeting you the one doing the facebooking you're the one writing the blog post whatever it is any of those things are at some point you know the folks in your the folks in your in your business were putting in enough words to make it into that persona that you go that's an i things post that's about tweet that's an item's facebook update like any of those sorts of things but then when you leave from that you have to turn around and go like oh my gosh like they're changing things oh I have experienced that 100% like well you know I've always said this philosophy is an employee and now I'm a freelancer with clients and I retain this philosophy and that is the business owner has the right to be wrong yeah yeah I have the right to fire them so I will do that and I've done it gracefully but like I when I could on sales calls with people and I've been on sales calls with you know really big companies especially when I was trying my discounts and they're like well I don't understand why we need a Twitter account I'm like because I'm finding this information out from employee X and they're like that's great I go it's great until employee X goes works goes and works for xwp or human-made or whoever right because you know I'm not I got the loyal to its with with employee X not brand Y the brand should always come first and when you treat I I mean I know this from a branding perspective that if you treat the brand is primary it's much easier for everybody to for anybody to be cross-trained so people in a small organization could go on vacation when I was with give they made me go on vacation I was like who's gonna tweet they're like you're not gonna do it I'm like it's fine they're like no you're not like they would not allow me to I know and I had to be like as I am I'm one of those people that takes ownership I'm like the best employee people ever at it's really bad for my personal life look nobody let's go do it they're like we're fine take two weeks off and leave us it's okay for jail like it's not but they might use the wrong bag I mean it could be really bad like so people don't value Twitter until somebody makes something really wrong you know and you know and then you could be like oh my gosh yeah I wouldn't do that but the good thing about the good and bad thing about the Internet is screenshots look forever and also you can just change it so that's the good and bad or the bad and could you know it's not print it's not print it's fine but but I I get that like at some point that the culture has to be documented and in a branding book so anybody can take that up and go this is Halloween this is our this is what we don't do this is what we do did you guys do that I themes yeah we didn't have a lot of document processes somes oh really we had one policy but I believe that values live on in the stories that you tell you know the people then betted story so we focus on that quite a bit is that we wanted to be able to take vacation and we're away different parts and that I wanted to empower our team to make decisions not necessarily exactly the way I would have made them but and I think values are really embedded in stories and so hey you know when we left and you guys made this decision we try to make those stories you know known within the team to say this is how we do now I want I want to go back to this I love this though I wish I had heard this when I was married because I didn't like the way he load the dishwasher because it was wrong and he didn't like the way I load the dishwasher because it was wrong and it's up close like there's ash washers loaded who cares I should have thought like the story he's sinking in his mind just like that brené Brown the story I'm riding in my mind sorry continue core marriage advice everybody yeah early on in the business head of my dear friend says you want to see how your business is really running leave for two weeks go on like an air airplane mode type vacation where I mean you're you're almost inaccessible and typically at that time it was like a Kruse so went on the cruise I said hey I'm gonna check him in once a day put fire in the east side decline and I didn't get any emails and it's this amazing thing when you put adults in charge it like give them freedom to make decisions I remember coming back though various points in our tenure and someone had made a decision in my absence and I was like well done thank you you know it would and that's a term that Google has kind of pioneered called psychological safety and yeah yes yes yes yeah all the way there's a lack of that in organizations today it's it's not psychological say so it's psychologically safe to make decisions I hear I hear clients talk it rant about our people don't have critical problem skills problem-solving skills and I said what you know in my mind it just goes off like well do they feel safe to make a decision do they feel like they're they're gonna get ridiculed punished or potentially lose their job over making a decision so our people I was like well then they're like you know I don't know if is red season no it was a right decision there's no debate there's no question you made the decision based on values in and I'm gonna live with it it doesn't even matter go and try to go back and go what I've made the exact same it doesn't matter you made a decision I want to affirm you made him whether about let's say I had a longtime team member he was at a really toxic organization before he came to us because I just want to thank you because I feel free to to potentially not gonna purposely make a mistake but to make mistake and not feel like I'm gonna lose my job you know okay you sidetracked me Brizzy but I wanted to say something back to the whole micromanagement delegation one person trying to delegate for me I think the solution is twofold one is the vision what do you want it in life if it's to be the sole person and if your woodworker to make the table and ship the table then do that like I am nope no place to ever judged entrepreneur for wanting to do that you should do this is the equation for entrepreneurship it should you know you should build the life the work that's one and B word for them but the other thing is so vision is the first thing where you want to go what do you want life to look like for your work but the second is I think pretty big in that how painful is it to do everything by yourself for me I work support for the first eight months and I themes and it was hard work I'm telling you support people on software have the toughest job in the software company they get all the crap few of the praise but I did that for eight months and I thought at some point I want to do other things and not just do front level support and so my pain at some point I wanted to you know I wanted to take off the hats that were very painful and given to somebody else that go oh god that's my favorite hat I don't get paid from it I get pleasure so that was my thought going back to your delegation thing yeah I mean I'd have to do that even in my own little tiny business I was talking to one of my clients today and I felt really bad because my roommate is one of my very best friends but I also pay her twenty dollars a load to do my laundry I don't have time I can't do everything that I'm doing in order to do my clients work manage a chronic illness recover from surgery and pay off my down loan debt isn't this a beautiful smile it's a Kia Optima okay so like I can't do that unless I pay Wendy to do housework and she says Bridgette why do you feel so guilty and I was like why do I feel guilty she needs extra work I need to help I had the money she has the time you know I I don't know why we feel guilty by getting help but it doesn't have to be everything that could be some things did we lose Corey the same issues I'm having where I have all these outside environmental things they keep going off you're so yeah I made that that is a real that's a real thing though and so she told me why do you feel so guilty for getting help you don't have to do everything and if I choose to outsource my housekeeping that's fine yeah when I met my wife and I hope she forgives me for telling this story but when I met my wife she goes we're dating so I have something I don't clean toilets like oh good I don't mow lawns awesome I love it that is what a good time the people I'm in meeting on eHarmony which is not our 40-minute marks sponsored but our forty minutes mark sponsor for the Tula's tip of the week is brought to you by peep so peep so is a super light free social network plugin for WordPress that allows you to quickly and effortlessly add a social network or an online community right inside your WordPress site your community your away can find out more at PSO calm PEP s calm so my cooler tip of the week is feedback WP ok so this guy Vito made this thing it's super awesome I a lot of times do QA like I don't just I'm not just a social media nerd I do work for agencies and even when I was what thought house where like I do QA on a site that we're launching or something like that one of my clients is launching and so um code brain media just started using this they bought the lifetime licenses on sale right now or whatever oMG you guys so I don't have to do a Google Doc and say okay third lying down or some spreadsheet it said this words make it this words or there's some weird line here or something like that especially because I'm not like well I'm not I'm not a coder I took some HTML CSS and I stopped when I had to do with five projects on free code camp but so it's it's in the front end you click on thing that you want to make a comment on just like a Google Docs but better you click on it it brings up a block so you say there's a weird line in the background right here safe you click here I really want this picture to be a different one safe and then the person who's the business owner role cuz it has three different roles kits that feedback visually it's a coolest thing I've ever seen I wish I had it five years ago when I was working at thought house it was it want to save me so much aggravation and probably the developer who is trying to interpret my gen-pop way of explaining that something that's cool that's cool I have one you let me go first what do you think Corey do you want me to go do it all right I'll do it though perfect so um I I recently moved offices I used to have an office actually at a window and now I'm in now I'm in a basement and I'm in the very far corner of the basement and I don't have a whole lot of there's not a whole lot of stuff to look at you know I'm just in my office as normal but I don't have that window and but I'm also one of those nerds that has like ten monitors on their desk right I have a monitor for everything there's so many monitors sitting on my on my desk and I wanted to have something that just constantly changes I want my wallpaper to change I want all that stuff to happen but I have multiple waters I have three monitors on my computer and and I'm like how do I make this all be like this one cohesive image like this just one really nice image and so you know as you do you start googling and I think I probably spent like an hour and a half now because I'm like I got to find the right way to make this happen so I found this company it's actually in the Mac App Store and you can go download it it's free and it's called multi monitor wallpaper and what this thing does is it does exactly what I wanted to because if I wasn't going to find this how to code it myself and I'd have to like okay let's figure out how I'm gonna make this work you give it the mentions of your monitors it gets all figured out think you just it just loads up and does it and then you tell it here's the place I want you to go look for these photos and I told that I was like well I want you to go look for everything that's on all of these like like free wallpaper websites and free image websites and that sort of stuff and what it does is it goes and takes that photo and then chops it up into pieces and it puts each section of each piece on each of the monitors how could I have a vertical monitor for my coding I have a horizontal monitor and then I have my laptop monitor and it actually chops up the image so I have I typed in that I wanted sunsets so I just typed in word sunset hit search down to sunset chop-chop-chop and then it put all three of them on the on the screen and I was done and what's crazy about it is when I when I close up my laptop and take it home I open it back up again the app goes and says something changed and it goes and finds another image and then replaces that suggest the one monitor has the and then when I'm so work it looks at it again and it goes will you have a monitor up here and you have a monitor down here at home so I know what the orientations like I'm gonna make you a custom wallpaper just for that so the sun's up here and then the the grounds down here that's really cool so when I go and walk away from my off my desk I have a I have a command that I use that just kind of hides all the windows and then when I come back come back to my desk and log back in I see although all the wallpapers turn on and I see that like oh look it's the sunset oh it's the moon or whatever but I get to see all of that and it's all nicely chopped up so it looks like one big image even though it's three different ones pretty cool I really did yeah sure well it's it's it's for fun and it uses a lot of the photos from unsplash so if you're a huge unsplash fan like I am it goes and finds like the highest quality unsplash and you'll also look on Flickr for images that are on Flickr as well so if you have like a really good you know some really cool photos that are in there it just uses to find it so you put your username on Flickr and maybe something else and I'll do it but really cool stuff I think a while back I actually asked about our stock photography site and Bridget I think you were one of the many people that were like no you know it's like you're always having to do some random 200k mod my tool tip you want it yeah what okay so in the context when you asked about this and of the theme of this show which is you know identity and change and all that being kind of pulled apart from your product or whatever your your work of art is in the world it made me think about transitions life is about transitions change and one of the books in the last year has been so instrumental it's a similar for helping me in the transition of leaving the company that I started and founded and ran and all that and the team is is literally a book seminal book called transitions making sense of life changes by William bridges it's it I think this book is 20 plus years old but it is a classic and it is incredible for managing some of the transitions and life and has helped me specifically with the latest one which is leaving the company but I will tell you I hit I'm 43 now but I hit 40 a couple years ago in midlife is a real thing research out on it and I wish I had this book couple years ago even before the word transition thing but I know this is not the last or even perhaps the biggest transition I'll ever go through and that book is something I very leaned on for perspective and insight into how to manage that well and so it manages it also talks about managing resentment as well right that's a big thing when it touches your identity right it because I'd like you here I'm like oh here's some things that people might experience resentment towards channel change initiative yeah uh-huh low morale and low productivity mmm-hmm yeah there's that to you all status tidy aha and then skepticism about the change initiative it's like yeah all those things everything on that iceberg diagram from your word cap top score II the view of life as iceberg is so so real you know people talk about my sharing publicly about that and I go that was years ago I had a friend a colleague say hey you know I know you talked about mental health in the past bar you get now and I'm like every other day brother like it doesn't it wasn't a one-and-done thing it's everyday living life as a human on this earth that things might happen transition is a great handbook a great resource for anyone and I think there's some big changes you know we lived in kind of technology the three of us it's gonna be big and I think about my kids I've got six year old and four year old and think about what life they're gonna inherit and walk into it's gonna be different and things like this this book I think are just incredibly helpful well I mean technology in general right it's so like my grandmother's 100 she just turned 100 she was born in 1919 when she was born there was no federal income tax okay cuz facts firstly federal income tax came after prohibition because all the money came from alcohol taxes then when we had Prohibition we instituted the federal income tax okay and what's funny is she retired from the IRS that's a little irony but so she's seen the horse and carriage the automobile airplanes a man landing on the moon and computers in your hand it's insane the huge leaps in technology that she has seen in her lifetime so it's it's not it's not that crazy to think you know we're living in the Jetsons now but like your kids who knows it's going to be like in 10 20 years when they're in college and getting married they might actually have those jets and cards like that's the only thing left because we had the videoconferencing and the robot made so like we pretty much only missing that my kids are a little bit older than yours Cory and and my oldest daughter she's she's 23 and she's she has said the music that the kids these days are listening to and I looked at her and I go what the think to back up a little bit did you just hear what you said she's like yeah and I'm like oh my gosh like the amount that if you think you're old I'm really old and that transition between her going from like and you know a teenager to now a young young adult and having her go and actually look back and go like oh my gosh only a couple years ago was I in high school now I'm looking back going oh my gosh like the music these kids are listening to you nowadays the stuff the kids are into these days that I'm just like you know worse it's whatever stuff you were wearing a junior high Jason so like that's what me and my friends are going through in the 46 to 50 year old rage were like you guys are wearing everything from the 90s you're just missing the claw bangs but anyway like wait I'm gonna put that for me personally I'm definitely gonna add that to my Amazon wishlist and also it'll be in the show notes of course but Cory like seriously thank you for being on the show I knew we thought about this topic you were the go-to person not just because you've been through it successfully but you're one of the few but you're pretty okay with talking about your feelings about it and you know being like well hey yeah I saw that it was kind of a bummer but then I was like well they did it I don't really want to do it so that's now I'm doing my own thing like now you're breeding that a generation of leaders could you just like in the last few minutes yeah tell us about your new project well new ish I know it's not brand new but yeah yeah leader got team or team got leader just do a 303 Corey life I was involved with I themes my greatest joy was building people I'm not a software developer I was at some point a very lame designer but the biggest joy I had and one of my strengths is building people and that's why I say going back to you I think it's a source of pride because building people trusting people letting them fly so and then parallel to that I've been a part of the not recur several entrepreneur groups for the last eight years and it's been some of the most incredible life changes that have happened walking with your peers together in groups that meet regularly consistently and so blending all of that together I want to do a different form of leadership development which is small groups of leaders walking together and want to help facilitate this and so my partner Jeff and I are new ventures leader team and so we put some things out there in the wild we're trying to dial in that particular offering and audience but that's what I'm doing next I'm I'm super excited about to have some clarity and to really kind of take a step back and refocus and go okay what's the next chapter for me I've got a lot of energy and years I hope in the tank and I want to give it back in a very impactful way and this is how we want to do it is helping build the next generation of leaders to really do some amazing work get away from the similar line of leadership lead people as humans to do really good things together that's cool that's cool just a sweat from menopause so the guy told you it's humid in Oklahoma here humid in Brigid land all the time thank you very much for for for both of you to be on the show for Corey thank you very much I really appreciate it I love that we're able to get great folks like you to come on a show like this and be able to talk about this and we appreciate you sitting there in the heat and then the humidity and talking with us I want to say thank you very much for our sponsors for helping us out today with getting the show put together paying for the bills that need to happen to make it all happen and just just helping us out we really appreciate it you can go over to our website at Davie water cooler calm or you can click on there to check out the subscribe page they too are water cooler calm slash subscribe that's where you find out how you can subscribe to this as well as the other shows that we have on on water coolers Network and also if you're if you're interested in any other stuff we send out emails through that subscribe link so if you go on there and click on the subscribe to our mailing list I send out an email every week and I just say hey you want to be on a show if you're interested in being on the show hit reply and no joke reply to me it goes straight to my inbox I'm doing either signing up for a special thing or doing anything crazy like that so feel free to make that all happen Corey if you want to be on water cooler at one point we'd love to have you come on water cooler so feel free to go do that we appreciate that so you have a good one talk to y'all later bye bye hi

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