EP301 – Holiday Block Party 2018 – WPwatercooler

(00:00) if you missed it and you’re like was there a party for 301 was there like some big huge you know thing oh yeah we totally did it we didn’t hit record I’m sorry you missed it it just yeah we had a postive party but but instead we’re doing we’re doing a we’re doing a block party just for just for the whole we’re doing a holiday block party today [Music] Jonathan how’s it going man good representing North Idaho thanks oh so is this a joke we’re like we apologize for potato quality or something my name is
(01:11) savory media on all the things and they wanted to give my own Instagram plug today I never click don’t we ever talk about Instagram we always only talk about Twitter I just not on this show I’m on the twit not nothing really I like sporadically on the Twitter anyway Instagram a Kiger says EG ers is at some point this was supposed to be like the secret the secret secret of twitter account that I kept linking to and you kept getting mad at me about well I didn’t say go to Twitter account if you told anymore
(02:05) so it were plug Instagram for a moment if you want to see some really good photography work you should check out mine I mean let’s be clear we’re not slugging Instagram we’re plugging our content on Instagram Instagram not need our help sir Jonathan I’m an aspiring photographer that’s all I’ll say it one aspiring night what does aspiring mean in that context like you just think about size you think about taking your things you hope you can’t let’s just say and hopefully won’t be the too
(02:37) disappointed I work really hard for the photos that I take who’s that guy with the green hair yeah George tell us about yourself how’s it going on OK with the hype man slash intro track it is step on stuff because I’m not gonna curse for Jason’s sake I am ready for the holidays I am just gonna go hide happy Festivus everybody happy Festivus portable is Sunday alright we have a separate podcast for the airing of grievances and pinned me to the floor in the mg sin Tucker you can find me over adjacent
(03:52) Tucker on twitter my website is Jason Tucker dot blog my Instagram is add Jason Tucker before you go take a look at that too and and I do another show here called WP blab feel free to go take a look at that and lastly we are proudly sponsored by summer press makers a desktop server I wanna say thank you very much for them for helping us out with doing this live stream we use zoom now for doing our live stream stuff because they cost money the first time that you know stuff that actually cost money for a water cooler so I was like
(04:22) okay fine well we’ll see if we can get some help for that I want to say thank you very much for them for helping us out with that and we’re also streaming live on Twitter on YouTube as well as on Facebook so hi everybody but not Instagram but not Instagram yes I have no idea George tough honest George Stefano’s okay I’ve got like two photos from the last two years so this morning I got an email from one my web hosts one of the mini web hosts but one of my web hosts a not
(05:25) one of my websites failed the upgrade to WordPress and I was like oh that’s fun let’s go in there and dig around so I dug around in there and just let you know folks just because you claim that you’re a web developer and just because you claim that you’re an admin of of WordPress II things it may help at one point to probably go in and update some of the old plugins that are in there so you know this is a PSA just well let you know you should definitely go in there do a backup of your website and then
(05:57) push update all the things and have it update all the things and then update your WordPress and see oh I’m Kurt do you guys actually do the backups no I have a whole web host that does it let me go I mean like that whole process of like backing it up right because like a lot of people say that I’ve said lots of times I find that I often don’t actually do like I don’t back up my stuff before clicking upgrade like if it’s now if it’s a client-side yes absolutely for my own projects like it might only one I
(06:26) backed up my backups backups because I am paranoid about losing data especially when it’s other people’s data it’s my data I’m kind of carefree about it which is probably annoying but like with other people’s data I even go on even a weird wpengine I will go do a manual checkpoint back up before I do anything even though there’s a backup when no one’s touched the site I don’t even care like why not just backup the backup I’m obsessed sorry how did you like backups I like backup so much that I was backing
(07:02) up my backups with my backups that were then being backed up today so my so slowly but surely my backups were going like this in size because I was backing up the backups that were being backed up I figured I had to do like you know exclude folders and Jason so what happened so oh yeah blew up like the website was just like oh this is all jacked up so that was my morning like you know those those four people that are trying to look at my cat blog I got to make sure this thing works and I don’t you know in a cat so I was like
(07:45) let’s see if I can get this going here and so transcended past the 4.9 s with the 5.0 and things working great now yeah went fine but it was really funny because I was like startled because it’s like we did it back up and I was like oh and then it was like it was for nine I’m you know is that weird like reverse back up hey Chris I just think that’s really funny right George is it funny your stuff it is hilarious I’m so glad you’re here for your color commentary back to you say did you buy shoes joy what I
(08:38) need the vacation my brain is fried I’m I mean it’s not like you’ve been on a crazy coaching coding binge for like the last six months trying to get a major piece of software out the door compatible with anything I mean no why would you ever suggest such a thing like Twitter quietly very excited about Gutenberg and how it’s gonna be playing out across the WordPress space what day of the week do we do the podcast on yeah yeah awesome you want energy talk to me on a Monday or a Tuesday we used to do Mondays and
(09:36) it didn’t work out the way you are George perfect because that’s what we’re really supposed to be we’re supposed to be like block it out right so I clearly don’t have the same like sort of backup ethos that you guys do they’ll probably bite for some time but on my own side I’m like I’ll just upgrade like so I’ve been running Gutenberg for awhile I was happy about the 5.
(10:27) 0 jumped into it so I haven’t played personally with the blocks very much I have focused on it as a writing like just just using to do a lot more writing in I’ve liked that my gripe today is using the italics like when I’m actually writing on the keyboard you know using command I to shift to the italics and then go back like it’s not smooth I have to go back and like select things etc so I’m feeling like on the one hand I’m happy to be a generally an early adopter of things then so like it doesn’t it doesn’t it’s not a blocker it’s not
(10:59) something that I wouldn’t use it but the other hand it makes me nervous about people the early adopter tolerance and those people don’t natively use command I on their qiblah I’m suspecting that’s good they’re already stopping and selecting and clicking so to that end you know given that you’re you know des that was my next thing this becomes the dilemma does it annoy like does it bother me enough to wonder if it will be like addressed or should I say something about it it’s like point of like I don’t
(11:40) know here I’m talking about a podcast but I here’s my opinion and then of course we should ask George cuz he’s you know is that those types of things could be also connected to other things right so something that’s simple on the surface there’s just a little blip that might seem annoying could actually be something that’s a little more systemic possibly so I think it’s always good to say those things and but of course I would also say you should search exhaustively first because is annoying
(12:10) is that the same thing being filed multiple times for like an italics thing terms you’re gonna use to search for does italics work in WordPress and it’s gonna be like of course it does ah no but I mean it would be like off the you know in the repo and it would be not written by people asking about italic so you would probably be able to you know find something that was if it had already been covered I just know the script load up the console real quick see if it does narrow when you do and you know and you’re like oh like
(12:43) somebody missed the semicolon awesome I was I actually listed as a contributor in 5.0 I was like why I don’t understand and then I had done some one semicolon did the whole thing back in Gutenberg so yeah so do it again no I will I will go I’ll see if I can find an issue and if not I’ll do a nice little video italics now it’s awesome agree yeah everyone should report yeah report it underlying this underlying or bold do the same thing too or no I haven’t tested those I probably overused italics in my writing
(13:43) really anyway so you’re just using it to write George have you built any new shiny things you got your Hello Dolly done yeah find out how what the future Gutenberg looks like so let’s pull up a spread any sort of roadmap okay when we did when we did our Mystery Science Theater 3000 interpretation of that we were watching it and streaming it and the Tarot Ricard came up and Bridgette goes like who would build that it’ll like it’s George it’s George it’s one of its one of our people yeah I’m I’ve been getting just
(14:49) to kind of report back I’ve been getting a steady stream of Facebook messages from old clients every couple of days hey so can I ask you where pressed question hey so that’s what I’m getting a lot of oh I have this real bad is why yes do we have a maintenance contract for I’m happy to answer all your questions for you like like certain small business people and answers their questions hello this is a bot here to answer your question instead of letting you google them yourself I should actually set up a buyer for that it’s
(15:28) if they say we’re pressing the thing there spawn should be I love the new editor it can cause some problems if you haven’t updated your theme check it out though in the vein of reporting book so I found someone who reportedly did a good job I’ll drop the issue now what’s appropriate they call this real-time follow-up in in the biz this is real-time follow-up you should add your course so well that’s the question what’s actually helpful at this point because oh me too I have the same issue
(16:01) like is that actually helpful did kill her man it looks pretty thorough right now we’re literally reading bug reports right now on air Batman and killer man here’s the question for like generally been reported and it’s thorough but so they did a good job and I’m gonna presume that’s the case it looks pretty similar what’s the appropriate like I’ve now subscribed to be notified of it so like that’s a good sign but now what’s appropriate like first what is appropriate here yes wouldn’t it be
(16:52) helpful to know that multiple people are experiencing this problem so my instinct is that I would do exactly that carefully see if there’s anything that I can add and turn those steps to reproduce and then say hey just one two point I’m having the same issue and maybe my environments different so I might add that if there’s anything different about my environment I mean the only other thing I can say just cuz it gets really annoying when you have like 20 people all saying if there was like one reply saying yes is happening
(17:20) to me to note anyone else that wants to say is happening to them to add a thumbs up reaction on to this comment to consolidate all the similar approach though like a her thing so put mine an offer at the end like I also would say the same thing just react G instead react G yeah react him react II I think that’s great but there’s not a I think that’s something that you know is the the +1 feature or the like kind of vote feature that’s not something that is um really close to the top top right there’s like a little
(18:11) emoji icon you can add a reaction oh there it is my screen was covering it I totally look at github all the time so so that’s helpful I’ll try that that’s great but as people are having like that’s the thing though it’s like what what is that what becomes that tipping point because I’m not sure if I would’ve been motivated enough but we had talked about to actually go find the issue but it’s you know it’s a contributor in the space as a person who’s active in space right like isn’t that the strength fear
(18:46) so like isn’t you not saying that like and hear me out I’m not accusing you this isn’t that kind of like not voting or like you know not calling your congressperson if you feel strongly about something and just like kind of opting out like in in the WordPress sites you mean like your leg up yeah that’s a thing and then like you know not actually participating which I totally do so I am a total break just add some light on it because I think you’re right like it can this is the type of stuff that makes a difference
(19:15) like my career got started in this space by like people helping me figure out how to do a WordPress integration and I decided to then write about it and sort of share here’s what I learned in that experience right like yes it’s extra effort but it’s not that much effort and often times it’s easy to stick in our own heads like oh you know someone else is gonna address this and this is part of why I raised it cuz not necessarily no no because if everyone thinks that then it might not get addressed at all
(19:45) yeah no I agree and in to figure out especially when it comes to something like this where is a pretty like a pretty basic a pretty basic type of thing that’s that’s it’s like a very it’s just like in inside Microsoft Word I always think of like is it bold italicize underscore like you should know how to use these things it’s it’s super easy to do so by highlighting some text and then clicking on the italic button or pushing or rather you’re doing the command I that this is not working and then what
(20:20) happens after that you’re like we’ll wait now I’m not getting the space after it what’s going on with this and you’re kind of digging further into it totally worth reporting and I think other people need to be able to kind of go through and report these sorts of things as well and I’m inspired those little things that are what the average person will judge as that type of stuff should be smooth right like it’s not the you know whether the blocks compatibility on this thing but that’s not the type of thing
(20:50) that the average user is going to notice I mean unless their whole site is broken in the transition which is different but like this is the type of thing oh it’s buggy or oh it’s just wonky or oh I can’t just make that work right and that’s that’s where the this isn’t just like you know on it’s you know it should have that that’s like kind of people’s opinions are people like you I and and those expectations being met that’s really important yeah sorry about my dogs I really like the riding experience
(21:25) I’m really intrigued by like some friends of mine built something called block laughs which i think is fantastic and having conversations with them about like and it’s interesting like what’s going to happen next on the one part like there’s a bit of a concern in the back of my mind it’s like we’re gonna have this explosion of blocks that is it really gonna be valuable for the end user it’s just it’s just like a little like Bell dinging I think there’s an optimistic a lot of these things but
(21:50) we’re gonna see a lot of change in the next a little bit and to be fair we’ve seen the exact same thing with custom post types a while post said oh there’s loads of custom post types there could be 50 different event post types and everyone’s gonna use none of interchangeable I’m like well yeah yeah but a couple of them wind up winning out and then that’s what everyone uses that’s why this is part of what I love about WordPress right like this like open you don’t like ultimatums and like
(22:23) sure yeah like but but not forced right that’s part of what’s beautiful about WordPress is that like you like people can kind of do what they want with it I think that’s yeah so it’s interesting like how do you bring kind of structure and better practices to things when you and it really has to be merit-based people have to want to do it it’s an interesting challenge for us as an ecosystem and as we get ready to like like I was talking to my friends at block lab about it and say okay so what
(22:51) are you gonna do with this like who do you focus on are you focusing on developers to make it easier for like them to create blocks and they said well we’re focused on agencies okay that makes sense but you kind of where do you go with this like where you about the user experience what happens if the user now has a bunch more blocks like what does that interface look like etcetera I mean I think we are going to see an explosion of blocks it’s different than custom post types it really is and blocks are especially as we get into
(23:18) phase 2 going to be even more you know I mean I don’t even know what that looks like or what that conversation is gonna be because it’s just I don’t even wanna think about it but the you know there’s already a bunch of kind of like block repositories out there that are competing which is like the next theme forest kind of deal everyone wants to be the next theme forest or the next theme forest essentially that’s the other one is trying to remember which is the same company but they that had that explosion
(23:49) without those standards that you were talking about Jonathan that created the theme options madness that created the like I know the folks didn’t borrow right like a lot of people really one of the things I’ve seen is this sort of like this one upmanship of like theme authors where it’s like this became this driver look we got a pack in the kitchen sink because this is what people are demanding and then we had this major from my perspective I’m kind of like painting broad strokes it doesn’t apply
(24:20) to everyone go bypass major ding in like performance and security because now it’s like well we don’t care about those that’s not what users are wanting to buy and and I get it like you know it’s it’s and then of course people’s tastes change now they want these other things etc and you see anyway it’s an interesting challenge because then some of these things take off in a big way and now you got a million sites with a theme deployed with a major security issue or major performance issues and it makes
(24:48) WordPress look bad and then ISM for Envato themes and plugins and stuff yeah so no idear call I think it was back when Jeff was still there they started trying to push through like some WordPress theme requirements guidelines and whatnot like the first time they tried to push it there was all this pushback from the community and like visual composer and everything in the repo so I can imagine deep voice got pushback from a thing that it’s you know taking money from people for right like how do you ultimately help encourage better
(25:26) behavior but without forcing it and the best thing the best conclusion I’ve reach is that you have to help the users care about it in a way that actually impacts them and they will drive because if suddenly the users like well I want like I want better code quality my stuff they don’t have the way of measuring that but if they they recognize that performance matters and security matters then I think like developers will follow now some developers already do but they just don’t they’re not getting the same
(25:52) traction as those who are like anyway it could be frustrating right why write great code but no one’s buying my stuff so it’s still it’s been wild Westy even in the theme world and it was finally I think kind of like locking down a little bit and now we’ve I didn’t you say right Wild West B I like that West yeah and now it’s it’s Gutenberg is like we really discovered a whole new frontier it’s like that’s not a notion there there’s a whole bunch more land and you know everyone’s just kind of
(26:24) land-grabbing I feel like right now with all you know well they’ve been mine land grabbing but now we’re gonna see now that it’s out and everything we’re gonna see how the how it all comes out in the wash and how do I think it’s more like to get black lab people they’re like how do people want us to do how do people want to use us like that’s that’s what a lot of the Gutenberg people I think are listening for they’re like what what should we do do you want us to marry what should we
(26:48) make you’re talking about wild Westy no Peter Westwood is not while he is a very British man and a delightful human being and I will not sit by here now have you tarnished his good name by calling him wild Westy oh he used to buy the six lead dabs on the project Al Gore actually did I’m very excited to see what happens like I love this I love the Wild West mists of WordPress and the innovation that it allows I think as we grow as a platform as an ecosystem as like an operating system for the web there needs to we need to up our game
(27:51) but in a way that’s not I think it should be married based right like how can make it easier for people to apply better practices and help users be educated about those things it’s like the harder path but I think ultimately produces the better outcome so I’m excited to see what happens next me too I can’t wait to see which things float to the top and which things are you know kind of forgotten like which Fork is still around in 2019 like next year’s thing I’m like which one’s gonna make it
(28:20) oh we should link to a betting site for that is that illegal should we not do that but we should definitely put general peoples bets on which is the Forex blast past like six months ten months yeah it’d be my first time ever do eat a fancy football but it’s not football it’s actually some beautiful ass like that’s the beautiful thing about WordPress they will last but will they have adoption will people keep using them I mean is that true there’s I mean to do those plugins that are three years old and the repo count is
(28:51) lasting I mean the last big day someone could take them up again right look that’s the thing about GPL but yeah you can adopt it where’s the passion oh we need to measure passion I think we’re we have women at left but I think we’re in a space now where like you know when the new iPhone came out and it’s a new like the the size of it was different and it was like it just took out and everyone rushes to Best Buy to go find like a little case that they want to buy and everybody had to buy that one case and
(29:24) you’re like oh man I got that one clear case there’s no other cases just this one click case and you’re waiting for the rest of the companies to start putting out their stuff that’s where we’re at right now with and and doing block editing type stuff is like we’re all downloading the same plugins going like yeah like all these cool blocks there are going to be some really ridiculously cool blocks out there yeah when we first saw beaver builder when we first saw divvy when we first saw all
(29:52) these things we were like wow this is this is the future just wait you’re gonna see some amazing blocks show up and everyone’s gonna be talking about these is the only things to use with that I want to say thank you very much for all you folks you know with us and and I saw folks in the chatroom that’s awesome I really to say that we have chat rooms all over the place say those people you need to link me I will